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Destroy All Podcasts DX Episode 73 - Lucky Star

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63 comments posted
It's kind of hard to defend

It's kind of hard to defend "Lucky Star" when you're so bent against shows of this type. You can take the best, most acclaimed J-RPG ever made, but it won't convince someone who hates J-RPGs to change their mind. I like "Lucky Star" 'cause it's a simple waste of time; not every anime I watch has to be a gut-wrenching emotional drama or have humans with thousands of gallons of pressurized blood contained in their frail, tissue paper-thin bodies.

IronGrenadier84's picture
Posted by IronGrenadier84 on 20 October, 2008 - 01:06
Drama?

My complaint is not that it's not dramatic, my complaint is that it is pandering to pedophiles.

It's not a really good comparison to go, "Oh man, you guys won't give JRPGs a chance!" when you mean "Oh man, you guys won't give underaged girl wank material a chance!" :)

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 October, 2008 - 04:15
Yeah, perhaps I should have

Yeah, perhaps I should have elaborated.

What I meant to say was, even if the girls had been drawn to look like high school girls, you would have still complained about the pacing and reference-over-joke narrative. From the get-go, because of the "slice of life" genre it was dead in the water to you.

Heck, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Akira talk about being "popular with the pedophiles" in one of the "Lucky Channel" segments? Can't recall if you two mentioned it, but the show kind of knows who's watching it.

IronGrenadier84's picture
Posted by IronGrenadier84 on 20 October, 2008 - 14:15
Yeah, not every show needs

Yeah, not every show needs to be a Macross/Robotech related thing.

Also, "Yu-Gi-Oh", seriously? Do some damned research.

Conan-san's picture
Posted by Conan-san on 20 October, 2008 - 03:33
Oh yeah baby!

I love it when I have no idea what people commenting in our threads are talking about.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 October, 2008 - 04:13
They're complaining about

They're complaining about the way you called the Anime Tenchou people, "Yu-gi-oh." I kept trying to correct you but you wouldn't listen.

-Andrew.

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 October, 2008 - 05:53
Uh huh.

Yeah, that's called a joke.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 October, 2008 - 09:06
It wasn't terribly funny.

It wasn't terribly funny. Plus it made you sound more ignorant than anything.

-Andrew

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 October, 2008 - 10:26
OKAY

Okay, not a JOKE, I was being sarcastic.

It was just one more way I was belittling something I didn't like. But seriously, that's the rebuttal?

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 October, 2008 - 11:27
Yu-Gi-Oh is a fantastic peice of animated art and I won't hear y

"Andrew is a straight-laced otaku new to the big city, and Jeremy is a nerd-in-denial who swears he's only into anime for the robots. Comedy ensues after unfortunate circumstances come together that force them to share an apartment. This Thursday, following an all new episode of 'The Big Band Theory!'"

I'd watch it.

TimF's picture
Posted by TimF on 20 October, 2008 - 21:24
It'd be just like an episode

It'd be just like an episode of "Perfect Strangers." I get to be Balki.

-Andrew

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 21 October, 2008 - 16:28
Oh nice. Call me out for the

Oh nice. Call me out for the rest of the world to hear. Lovely and mature.

Fine. It's not for you, but don't call out people who like shows like this.

VZMK2's picture
Posted by VZMK2 on 20 October, 2008 - 09:03
Also, I want to know why

Also, I want to know why it's wrong for someone to like a show like Lucky Star or Haruhi.

Even if it was creepy (which it isn't), I'm a libertarian and I feel people should like WHATEVER THEY WANT as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

And I'm still a mecha fanboy but the modern ones are terrible. GITS or anything Mamoru Oshii is f#####g boring and Jinroh is one of the most boring films I've ever seen. Sorry, I can only watch things that are super violent or super cute.

P.S. You wanted you know if there were people that defend M.D. Geist? I'm one of them. That OVA is awesome. I love the crazy 80's OVA's just as much as I love the modern moe genre.

VZMK2's picture
Posted by VZMK2 on 21 October, 2008 - 18:55
Honestly though, there's a

Honestly though, there's a lot of other shows that are actauly as you put it "underaged girl wank material" even by the same studio. I would of like to have thought that DAPDX would give something like Kannon a punching in the throat long before this "meh" show.

Conan-san's picture
Posted by Conan-san on 20 October, 2008 - 09:58
Yeaaahhhhh, but...

Part of why this struck me as so creepy was that it was trying to be less obvious about it and people were defending this and saying it WASN'T blatant pedo-bait. And maybe it isn't BLATANT. But it's still there and it's still gross.

Maybe I will swear at Kannon later.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 October, 2008 - 11:29
We should do Potemayo or

We should do Potemayo or Bottle Fairy.

-Andrew

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 October, 2008 - 17:46
No no, do Rozen Maiden or

No no, do Rozen Maiden or Hidamari Sketch.

No wait ever better, Moetan. I TRIPLE DOG DARE you two to review that.

Oh, that'll be a f-ing hilarious show.

VZMK2's picture
Posted by VZMK2 on 20 October, 2008 - 18:12
Another thing. Konata 's dad

Another thing. Konata 's dad is awesome. It's supposed to make fun that he like young girls and acknowledge that he's creepy which is why you get the surprised reactions from Kagami.

Seriously, that went over your heads since I guess it is a generational and cultural thing.

VZMK2's picture
Posted by VZMK2 on 20 October, 2008 - 10:49
Talkin' 'bout my generation.

Uh, I'm pretty sure we are the same generation as you.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 October, 2008 - 11:24
Well, if you think LS is

Well, if you think LS is creepy, lord knows what you must think of something like Boku no Pico (no, I haven't actually watched that).

But I will say, why don't you guys actually WATCH Haruhi instead of just dissing it, thinking I fap to it. It's NOT what you think if you're basing it on the caps I posted on TBDX awhile back.

VZMK2's picture
Posted by VZMK2 on 20 October, 2008 - 11:52
AWO

I listened to the AWO episode on Haruhi. I think I get what it's about it.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 October, 2008 - 13:39
Well at any rate, you seem

Well at any rate, you seem to be of the notion that people like me are creepy pedophiles out for your children just because we happen to like shows like Lucky Star or Strawberry Marshmallow.

Fine, you're a film and literature major. I don't care if something is meant to be well written or not. All that matters if I like the character designs and if it entertains me.

I use to hate the modern fandom but I'm started to dislike the oldschool "everything has to be of my moral western judgement in order to be good" fanbase.

Live for moe, die for moe.

VZMK2's picture
Posted by VZMK2 on 20 October, 2008 - 15:16
I did bother to watch all of

I did bother to watch all of Haruhi after the AWO review to see what all the fuss was about, and I can say I thought it was an overall cool show if you don't think about it too deeply (or the moe implications). Clarissa who later watched an episode of Kanon wished there had been a second season for Haruhi instead of that, or Lucky Star that followed.

Chris@StudioToledo's picture
Posted by Chris@StudioToledo on 13 November, 2008 - 01:52
yeah I've got to agree with

yeah I've got to agree with Jeremy. Its all a bit too wtf to me

the only comforting thing is the only people I know who watch this are all girls... and one gay guy and all they seem to care about is that dance and all the references. maybe they have some sort of game to find all the references to prove how hard core they all are...

_____________________________________________________________________________
Transformer and other robot art by me on my DA site blitz-wing.deviantart.com

Blitz's picture
Posted by Blitz on 20 October, 2008 - 16:36
All the anime fan girls I

All the anime fan girls I know like the show. They also love the dance.

-Andrew

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 October, 2008 - 17:06
I think I am more in Andrew's boat here.

Haha, good rant. I've watched a few episodes and didn't much care for it. However, was I not offended/annoyed by it as I am with the Moe cancer killing the industry right now.

25 minute episodes is definitely the wrong format for this show. So let's ignore that altogether and think about the source.

Lucky Star is simply a comic strip that ran in a manga publication. Just like Computer magazines will run something like a Dilbert comic, the New Yorker will run snooty political comics, and Playboy will run perverted cartoons, the strip is based around the publication's subject manner. Lucky Star ran in a publication geared to the creepy Otaku demographic. So, of course the subject manner will be around the nerdy stuff and pointless Seinfeld-like conversations, this is the Slice-of Life element. However, I do agree with Jeremy in that Lucky Star is not a Slice of Life show.

Yes it's pandering to the key demographic, but it's also parody. From my viewings it seems like the Moe aspect being used at all is merely a joke, they are making fun of the Otaku reader. The use of Moe' is not there for the sake of stimulation or idolization to Joe Q Pederast.

To sum it up, Moe' sucks and people should be executed for encouraging it. Lucky Star is not Moe' but a Lampooning of Moe', it's fans, and life in general. There is an element of the Slice of Life genre to it, but it's definitely not a Slice of Life show.

Keep up the good work dudes.

Superdeformed's picture
Posted by Superdeformed on 20 October, 2008 - 18:52
There does seem to be an

There does seem to be an undercurrent of parody. With Akira and Konata mostly, but you see more later on with Hiyori and Patrica.

-Andrew

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 October, 2008 - 20:22
Hmm, not so much parody, but

Hmm, not so much parody, but the Moe is used more tongue in cheek?

I dunno, just doens't seem to be there for fap material.

Superdeformed's picture
Posted by Superdeformed on 22 October, 2008 - 20:34
I dunno. I am sort of on

I dunno. I am sort of on the Something Awful side of this one. Its REALLY hard to look at stuff like this and not consider it made for creepy people.
It is getting to the point where being an anime fan is synonymous with deviant scuzbag these days.

Maybe I never saw it back in the 80s and 90s, but now I do, or its gotten so out of control and blatant. I don't know.

But its bad enough I feel like a loser and a dork playing RPGs and watching cartoons and collecting cool toys to have to worry about being considered a candidate for a new Dateline NBC special because the fans and the creators just get creepier and creepier.

Though I heard a decent comparison about Lucky Star itself. Its Family Guy for Otaku. Or the Weeaboo version of Quagmire really. (Speaking of creepy characters. That show has really gotten to a point where its not only repetitive, but unfunny and highly disturbing...)

As to Azumanga? I found it to be a sweet and cute mostly wholesome show. Probably one of my 3 favorite high school TV shows.

Or as I put it:

That 70's Show is the way most people claim their high school years were. (Full of sex, booze, drugs, and wacky hijinks with their friends.)
Freaks and Geeks is the way it really was. (Full of awkwardness, alienation, abuse, and misery.)
Azumanga is the way high school SHOULD BE. (The end of childhood, one's last innocent days where there is little to care or worry about except the odd test and having enough cash for a sodapop and a book to read for fun.)

Of course I have to avoid thinking about what the deviants probably have done to it online, but I pretty much avoid any fan works of anything anymore, especially with Google SafeSearch off. It stays on for a reason!

Why can't anime be about soul and emotion and epic heroes and tragic romances?

Why did it turn into something for deviants with a full box of tissues and an industrial sized bottle of hand lotion?

And why do we accept it? Why don't we fight this nonsense? Why do we leave the Something Awfuls of the world to go Internet Detective on every person who post on their anime forum to root out the odd sicko?

I remember making an offhand comment about Lucky Star being moe and moe being horrible at a nerd convention and I had a couple of people ready to kick my butt provided they had any guts to do so.

Anti moe should be the RULE not the exception. :(

Typhus's picture
Posted by Typhus on 20 October, 2008 - 20:26
"Why can't anime be about

"Why can't anime be about soul and emotion and epic heroes and tragic romances?"

Who says it has to be that all the time?

"Why did it turn into something for deviants with a full box of tissues and an industrial sized bottle of hand lotion?"

Somebody missed the 80's OVA boom. Face it, anime has always been about exploitation. It's commercialized art to the core. If it isn't violent porn comics, it's epic pitched space battles which is the biggest fetish out there. Just ask LoGH fans.

-Andrew.

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 October, 2008 - 20:55
"Somebody missed the 80's

"Somebody missed the 80's OVA boom. Face it, anime has always been about exploitation. It's commercialized art to the core. If it isn't violent porn comics, it's epic pitched space battles which is the biggest fetish out there. Just ask LoGH fans."

And really, that's what made anime awesome. No matter what, isn't the appeal for anime seeing stuff that borders off the morality scale?

Really, find me a pro ero loli moe podcast.

Closest one I can find. NSFW of course.

http://www.oniichannoecchi.com/

VZMK2's picture
Posted by VZMK2 on 20 October, 2008 - 22:39
Being able to do whatever

Being able to do whatever you want didn't make anime awesome. It gave Koichi Ohata a career and there's nothing good that has come out of that. I suppose we can be happy he's stuck sucking on the Ikkitousen teat at the moment. And as we all known, those are some pretty big teats.

-Andrew

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 21 October, 2008 - 07:12
Moe is fine

First let me say, I'm an ungrateful fool and still haven't listened to the show or anything, just wanted to state my opinion on some of what's being discussed here. Trying not to attack anybody or anything, either. Maybe I'm just bored...

Moe, lolicon, all the different terms flying around out there, I had to do some research. But still I came to the same conclusion.

I think that a person has every right to enjoy whatever kind of anime they like, and no one else has any right to criticize them until it reaches the point where they actually go out and do something criminal. I like what I like, you like what you like, taste can't be debated. So what the hell's the problem? As long as it's just animated and not real child pr0n, and someone can control themselves and get a kick out of it, that's perfectly fine.

Gareth Infinity's picture
Posted by Gareth Infinity on 20 October, 2008 - 21:19
What the hell's the problem?

What the hell's the problem? Taste can't be debated?...Buster...that ship has already been sailed since 2003....That's the problem....Your train ticket got expired...dude.

-R78

Rodimus78's picture
Posted by Rodimus78 on 20 October, 2008 - 23:24
Rodimus78:

I have no clue what you're trying to tell me...

Gareth Infinity's picture
Posted by Gareth Infinity on 20 October, 2008 - 23:32
Not to speak for R78, but I

Not to speak for R78, but I think the point here isn't that "taste" is what's on the chopping block. It's more the sociopathology behind that taste.

--
Sanjeev

Sanjeev's picture
Posted by Sanjeev on 21 October, 2008 - 11:37
I'm not going to tell you Gareth Infinity....

I'm not going to tell you that meaning Gareth Infinity.
and I'm not going say if Sanjeev is right or wrong about what I've just said. He doesn't speak for me and that's a very brave thing for him to do.
I hate being encryptic about this kind of thing, but after reading what you said about Moe being fine and all that 'Squealer-babble'....yes, I have to be encryptic.

So I'm not gonna to tell you KIA-Boy. I don't tolerate this kind of 'junk excuse'. You want to know the answer, do what Sanjeev and Jeremy and others had done, do some REAL RESEARCH! Consider this as your make-up assignment. And when you're done, look me up and tell me the meaning of it.

Take it or leave the assignment for your dog to maul off. That's fine with me. Because as it stands your research is an F.

-R78

Rodimus78's picture
Posted by Rodimus78 on 17 December, 2008 - 21:44
Done.

I did some more research and was startled to discover that I stopped caring about this almost two months ago.

I honestly do not want to keep arguing (would've done that almost two months ago) about this and I hope that is alright. My apologies for having said anything in the first place, knowing even then I really didn't care enough to actually put any effort into researching it. I sincerely admit to being a fool in that respect.

Gareth Infinity's picture
Posted by Gareth Infinity on 17 December, 2008 - 23:21
Terrible

Terrible character designs, awful looking animation, it is NOT funny, this show is aimed at boring people with no personalities who have no social skills and who are the wrong people of the world.

People might have a right to their taste but I also have a right to say this show is crappy creepy refuse.

Jen's picture
Posted by Jen on 21 October, 2008 - 11:19
The show's title sounds like a name for a Chinese food place

If you are so opposed to underage wank shows, why not do a PSA (Public Service Announcement) against them? Ask other people to insert it into their podcasts.

account15's picture
Posted by account15 on 21 October, 2008 - 17:13
And so what if these shows

And so what if these shows ARE wank material? Do you guys lay awake at night thinking people are going to start raping little girls just because they watched a moe show? How about that people just find them entertaining. Yes, there good ones and bad ones (Happy Lesson is the worst POS I've ever seen).

Old school fans need to stop being so butthurt that they're hobby that once was benign is now being overtaken by "creepy lolicon otaku". What does it matter what other people think of your hobby? All that matters is what you enjoy as long as it doesn't intrude on other people. Moral panic alarmists the lot of you.

VZMK2's picture
Posted by VZMK2 on 21 October, 2008 - 18:55
Fans

It doesn't bother me what you choose to like. This is not a podcast designed to form opinions for you. This is what we think. Feel free to disagree. In fact, you are certainly welcome to start a lolicon podcast and talk about it as much as you want.

The thing is, I am interested in what makes social phenomenons like this tick. First off, I think it's gross and creepy, but as Sanjeev said, I am interested in WHY this exists.

I'm interested in the social forces that generated this (a mutation of the 70's kawaii movement combined with Japan's aging population and the really shitty job market creating a generation of Japanese adults who can't get jobs better than working at 7-11 combined with Japan's traditionally overpolite culture) and the way Americans lap this up without thinking about it or even truly understanding it. Josh and I talked a bit about this lack of cultural context in an old podcast.

Some people here have mentioned that women in the west are enjoying these shows, but would they if they realized it was intended to stroke the libidos of creepy Japanese shut-ins fetishizing underaged girls? Maybe not. That's pretty interesting on a social level.

Do companies like ADV realize what they are peddling? There was that drama over that one American company bailing on a book called Nymphet because it was too blatantly "teacher has sex with his underaged student" or something like that. They have to have SOME idea...

But come on now, prudes? Really? We just positively reviewed A Kite for christ's sake.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 21 October, 2008 - 22:52
"Some people here have

"Some people here have mentioned that women in the west are enjoying these shows, but would they if they realized it was intended to stroke the libidos of creepy Japanese shut-ins fetishizing underaged girls? Maybe not. That's pretty interesting on a social level."

They don't care. In a world of things to worry about, what someone else is doing with Japanese cartoons has no direct affect on them.

-Andrew

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 22 October, 2008 - 06:44
You tell 'em Jeremy!

You tell 'em Jeremy!

Chris@StudioToledo's picture
Posted by Chris@StudioToledo on 13 November, 2008 - 02:37
I never said I supported equality or democracy.

I don't like "creepy lolicon" shows. I'd be willing to speak out against them. I'm sure nothing will come of it though. Japan will produce whatever sells.

If Anime is being "taken over" by anything, it's probably by Naruto or Bleach. I guess Shonen Jump shows aimed at 12-year-olds that go on for 100+ episodes never go out of style.

account15's picture
Posted by account15 on 23 October, 2008 - 17:16
I honestly think otaku

I honestly think otaku fetishes pop up even in the shojo and shonen fare. Naruto's first kiss, the whole Zabuza and Haku thing, the lesbian classmate on Bleach, Orihime's chest, the buffet of fetishes that is Tokyo Mew Mew (schoolgirls who grow animal ears in battle and work at a maid cafe after school)... and Zatch Bell... http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=050B4EE4C19B1C7B The show totally strikes me as kiddie fare, so why all the jiggling and songs about groping?

man10na's picture
Posted by man10na on 1 November, 2008 - 14:26
This is a disturbing comment to make.

"And so what if these shows ARE wank material? Do you guys lay awake at night thinking people are going to start raping little girls just because they watched a moe show? How about that people just find them entertaining. Yes, there good ones and bad ones (Happy Lesson is the worst POS I've ever seen).

Old school fans need to stop being so butthurt that they're hobby that once was benign is now being overtaken by "creepy lolicon otaku". What does it matter what other people think of your hobby? All that matters is what you enjoy as long as it doesn't intrude on other people. Moral panic alarmists the lot of you."

First, this is a disturbing comment to make. are you saying it's ok to be all peder-filed or what with this type of statement?!?!

Second, I hate this whole "old school vs. new school" argument. Maybe it should be a "style vs. substance" argument instead, as that's always what it boils down to. Moe fans in general start in on anything that doesn't have 2 bags dancing in their face every ten seconds or fast edits, and old school fans are into simple stuff. whatever. Me, I like good stories and good design. End of story.

I for one, don't wank to cartoons. I'm sure there are many others here who do not as well. Usually, i'll find a- a real person to do that with; or b- a 3-pack of magazines at the corner store. I don't need a cartoon- especially one that features children - to get off on. And if you do, then go for it.

It's just that when people visit me, and see my collection, I hate that sometimes, especially women, associate anime of any type with moe, because that's what they see pretend-versions of at Barnes & Nobles, or see in the media. Because I hate that type of stuff, and don't want to be associated with it.

It's not just westerners who thing it's creepy, or americans forcing their morals at you, it's just that the majority of human beings on earth feel that an adult having sex with a teenager or child is morally wrong. And these type of shows obviously play off of that taboo, and are not only saying "it's ok!" but are making a profit at it.

I also find films and manga that use sex or social taboo as shock value just to be a cheap, hack way to entertain.

I would be the last person who would ever try to remove what enjoy from your hands, it just feels like what I don't enjoy is being forced into mine in a lot of the new anime. And I just can't ever get behind abuse or shows that, even in the most abstract of ways, promote it or condone it.

The Big R's picture
Posted by The Big R on 23 October, 2008 - 19:18
I never stated that I

I never stated that I actually wank to anime characters but I do find some really adorable or attractive. I'm obsessive about character designs for a show, even more so than the plot of show. Really, I don't go by the notion that some people have that if a show is pandering or exploitative, then it's crap. There's only two rules for me. You either entertain me or you fail to. I HATE when anime gets preachy or has a deep "message". This is why I'll never study film because I don't want to dissect and analyze a show, killing the fun out of it.

Someone has to me on my side here.

VZMK2's picture
Posted by VZMK2 on 23 October, 2008 - 21:37
"I never stated that I

"I never stated that I actually wank to anime characters"

Hey Vince, I know the podcast is full of filthy, dirty lies but that doesn't mean the comments have to be like that.

-Andrew.

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 24 October, 2008 - 09:21
Oh look. Japan is worried about lolicon too!

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-10-21/japanese-parliament-hosts-rival-adult-anime-petitions

INTERESTING STUFF!

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 22 October, 2008 - 00:11
 
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