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Wheelie Survivalist

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30 comments posted
Waiting on mine.

I purchased the original one that made by Jiztal toys a couple of years ago. Nice but joints were very loose. The legs keep popping off. I purchased this model a couple of weeks ago and now waiting on it to come in. Thanks for the review. Really hoping that it come soon.

Robonurse's picture
Posted by Robonurse on 2 October, 2011 - 23:26
Nice review, but I'm not

Nice review, but I'm not impressed with the toy. Think I'll wait for a Universe release.

EVA_Unit_4A's picture
Posted by EVA_Unit_4A on 2 October, 2011 - 23:33
It's comics and TV model

It's comics and TV model perfect, what could a Universe release possibly add?
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Image:Wheeliesurvival.jpg

Prometheum5's picture
Posted by Prometheum5 on 3 October, 2011 - 07:21
Mostly taking care of those

Mostly taking care of those large seam gaps in vehicle mode, but also to update the look of both modes to something a little more modern. He looks like a human in a space suit rather than a robot in that picture you attached.
Mostly aesthetics is my sticking point. It looks like a good toy, just... not for me.

EVA_Unit_4A's picture
Posted by EVA_Unit_4A on 3 October, 2011 - 21:29
I agree...it's not bad figure

I agree...it's not bad figure overall, but the vehicle mode gaps are too much for me.

spencer1984's picture
Posted by spencer1984 on 5 October, 2011 - 05:55
Here is the original Jizai

Here is the original Jizai Toys kit for comparison.

Jizai's kit is a legitimate second party garage kit. I wonder how he feels about being ripped off.

VF5SS's picture
Posted by VF5SS on 3 October, 2011 - 08:01
probably not too bad, he had

probably not too bad, he had the license to sell it for one day at Wonderfest and i don't think hes producing it anymore. i feel bad that his design was taken, but who's to say he didn't sell it himself? its an expensive undertaking to get these things mass produced

Astronopolis's picture
Posted by Astronopolis on 3 October, 2011 - 09:53
And

...And it's been bootlegged several times already since 2007. Doesn't make it right, but vast majority of fans benefit from this release (die-cast, assembled.) I wish the Wondercon licenses extended a bit and the items were more widely available, but when they're gone, they're gone. For most fans, when people re-bootleg the "bootleg", it's the only chance fans have to get some amazing stuff. Doesn't make it right, but it is what it is.

The Big R's picture
Posted by The Big R on 3 October, 2011 - 14:07
I understand this attitude -

I understand this attitude - that any situation where most fans are deprived of something is an aggregate bad, and any situation where something is made more widely available is an aggregate good - but this is a classic attitude of entitlement, where one just wants to get what one wants and morality and legality don't enter into it.

I mean, I'm heartbroken that Jizai can't sell his stuff on his website year-round, but I'd still rather spend 200 bucks on eBay for a legit Jizai Cyclonus kit (I use this example because I don't care about Wheelie :P ) than spend 50 for a bootleg that's taking advantage of someone else's labor and art.

And, in regard to Astronopolis' earlier post:
"...but who's to say he didn't sell it himself?"

Well, anyone who requires evidence to back up assertions could say that. In the absence of any indication that Jizai has authorized this release, we can only assume that it's unauthorized.

recognizer's picture
Posted by recognizer on 3 October, 2011 - 15:10
Who benefits?

"I'd still rather spend 200 bucks on eBay for a legit Jizai Cyclonus kit..."

Does Jizai see a dime of that?

See, if Jizai were actually producing stuff--or, maybe, if he says "it's not worth producing stuff because it'll just get bootlegged and nobody will buy the originals"--that would be one thing. If he only ever does fifty or a hundred of these things EVER--if his decisions are not based on the economics of production--then that's another thing.

RobotBastard's picture
Posted by RobotBastard on 3 October, 2011 - 17:08
"Does Jizai see a dime of that?"

"Does Jizai see a dime of that?"

Of course not. But is that even relevant? I'm presenting my preference for the high secondary market cost of legitimate Jizai products as an example of how strongly I feel about not supporting this type of bootleg. When you buy the bootlegs, whatever you spend goes directly to people who are appropriating someone else's work. It supports activity which can only be condoned if you believe that allowing the fans to have all the Wheelies they want is a greater good than respecting Takara's right to control their license and Jizai's right to produce his own designs.

"if his decisions are not based on the economics of production"

The economics of production for garage resin casters are extremely different from those for Chinese manufacturers. Certainly you can't expect a single artist or a small group of artists to crank out resin kits in mass-production numbers; this clearly isn't a full-scale business for Jizai. Besides that, there's the fact that he can only sell these items under single-day licenses. I don't know much about the actual procedure for acquiring these temporary licenses, but I'm sure more is involved than simply calling Takara up and asking nicely. Everything about a small-scale resin kit producer's process is inherently limiting; the fact that Jizai chooses to produce his work with a legitimate license from Takara further limits his opportunity to produce and sell his work.

recognizer's picture
Posted by recognizer on 3 October, 2011 - 18:16
I have to chime in since I

I have to chime in since I paid for the figure knowing full well it was based off the Jizai version. I debated whether to make that part of the review. i don't agree with a company ripping off someones hard work and effort ( I lost a successful online store due to the release of much cheaper and inferior unlicensed bootleg items, also my bands album was being bootlegged in the US and Europe hurting our sales while a "friend" was pocketing all the proceeds of these unofficial releases). Ultimately there will always be someone making money off someone elses hard work. Of course, I am guilty of supporting this company by buying this, but economics come into play here honestly speaking. I am just not down for paying 200 bucks for a small loose resin kit when there is a superior $50 diecast version easily available. That would mean missing out completely and never owning either. I respect those people morally capable of staying away from unofficial toys. It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it :P

chachipower's picture
Posted by chachipower on 3 October, 2011 - 20:52
I wouldn't judge you for

I wouldn't judge you for deciding that you still want to own the toy despite it being a bootleg - I think it's admirable that you acknowledge the morally questionable nature of the product, despite your own decision to own it. I collect bootleg items myself, generally of the type that are so unlike the original that they can only stand beside it, not replace it. (These baffling oddball bootlegs are the type most often reviewed on CDX, really.) The thing that bothers me is when people act as if bootlegging in general is good simply because the fans get more of what they want, choosing to ignore the nature of the product they're buying.

recognizer's picture
Posted by recognizer on 4 October, 2011 - 17:50
BOOTREG

"Does Jizai see a dime of that?"
"Of course not. But is that even relevant?"

Um, it's entirely relelvant if you're going to say that you'd rather spend $200 on a resold original than $50 on "a bootleg that's taking advantage of someone else's labor and art." The artist is only indirectly supported by the secondary market, in a "keeping the name fresh" sense. If you are willing to spend $200 on supporting Jizai's art--which is certainly a laudable goal--then why not encourage him to produce original characters and work and spend $200 on those?

"It supports activity which can only be condoned if you believe that allowing the fans to have all the Wheelies they want is a greater good than respecting Takara's right to control their license and Jizai's right to produce his own designs."

I'm not sure what argument you're making here.

Are you saying that Takara is using Jizai to float trial balloons regarding what they'll do as their next masterpiece figure? Maybe, but A: it's not like he doesn't sell out everything he does, and B: have they ever actually taken one of his designs to mass production?

Or are you saying that Jizai is somehow deciding not to do certain things because there will be bootlegs made of them? Like, he'd be doing more Wheelie kits if only there weren't all these bootlegs around?

If you're making an argument that IP is IP and bootlegs are therefore prima facie wrong, then I can't agree in this situation. I'm very much in favor of strong protections on IP--copyrights, trademarks, patents--because I think that creators should have a reasonable expectation that they can derive income from their creative activity. I'm much less supportive of the idea that people can just sit on IP and prevent others from expressing ideas in ways that they have no intention of doing, and that we should all be happy with that.

Again, it's not as though there are racks and racks of Masterpiece Wheelie toys that aren't being sold because of bootlegs. It's not like Jizai is quitting the toy-making scene because of bootlegs. If anything, I'd say that the bootleg market is providing a useful service here, by filling a niche that the primary license holder would have never found it economical to go after. (Wheelie's limited popularity in the toy-buying market was never going to support a mass-produced toy on the level of the bootleg diecast toy reviewed here.)

RobotBastard's picture
Posted by RobotBastard on 4 October, 2011 - 16:18
IP rights

First of all, you seem inordinately fixated on the idea of supporting the original creator of the work, to the point where you act as if all my statements are somehow related to supporting Jizai. This doesn't make any sense, because what I'm talking about here is NOT SUPPORTING BOOTLEGS. You surely understand that these are two separate things, both equally optional, and that they are not a necessary dichotomy. Not supporting bootlegs does not mean I need to make sure that my money goes directly to Jizai. There's no reason that even needs to be a part of the argument - the ethical question of bootlegging stands alone, whether or not the original creator is still producing their work.

"I'm much less supportive of the idea that people can just sit on IP and prevent others from expressing ideas in ways that they have no intention of doing"

I am absolutely baffled by the idea that you consider recasting a toy and pre-assembling it to be "expressing ideas". They are adding nothing to the toy in terms of design or engineering. They're just making more of it.

Your argument in fact does not have anything to do with creative expression, and everything to do with... well, exactly what I was saying in the quote which you purport not to understand. You seem to believe that bootlegging is morally justifiable in this case because the bootleggers are making the toy more widely available than it originally was. This attitude is actually entirely dismissive of the value of protecting IP, and of the value of creators' rights, because you are asserting that market demand justifies IP violation. You can't have it both ways - either you respect Jizai's right to produce his work, and Takara's right to license their IP, or you don't. This isn't a case of patent trolling or frivolous patents, which exist only to limit others' ability to utilize technology - this is a pure creative product, with no material value to society.

By the way, I make no argument about whether these bootlegs discourage Takara from producing more high-end collector-directed toys of certain characters. That is unknowable, unless someone's got inside info on Takara's decision process. However, I would point out that the format in which Jizai is allowed to produce his items - as one-day-sale resin kits - is a format which essentially exists to grant certain privileges to commercial fan-works WITHOUT interfering with the market for the license-holder's primary products. That's how this works, and it's a reason why the IP owners don't crack down on fanworks in Japan.

recognizer's picture
Posted by recognizer on 4 October, 2011 - 17:43
See, this is exactly what makes people hate copyright.

"you seem inordinately fixated on the idea of supporting the original creator of the work, to the point where you act as if all my statements are somehow related to supporting Jizai."

Dude, you're the one who brought it up. If you're changing your mind now and saying that it's not about supporting Jizai, that's fine, but don't be talking like I just invented the idea myself.

*****

Your argument is nothing more than "the law is the law and that's the end". Bootlegs are unlicensed, therefore they're bad, end of discussion. End. Of. Discussion. You're completely unwilling to address the reason IP protection exists, what it's intended to do, whether there are situations in which it might not be appropriate, or why violations of IP rights are not axiomatically bad.

Although I can see how someone with an original Jizai toy that's been bid up to crazy prices on the secondary market would have a vested interest in there not being bootlegs available.

******

"You seem to believe that bootlegging is morally justifiable in this case because the bootleggers are making the toy more widely available than it originally was."

Yep! I believe that, as the enjoyment of this particular creative expression is inseparably tied to a physical token (the toy), the bootlegs are improving the overal creative content of the world by making more of those tokens available.

...in this specific situation. I know your brain shut off after that last sentence as your stimulus-response kicked in, but I freely admit that there are situations where bootlegging acts counter to the promotion of creative expression by making it impossible for a creator to derive income from their creativity. This is not one of those situations.

******

"you are asserting that market demand justifies IP violation."

I'm asserting that there's a market demand which no producer except the bootleggers is willing to meet. I mean, let's just make sure that we're on the same page here--you're saying that anyone who wants this Wheelie toy has to wait for everyone who owns an original Jizai to sell theirs, and if the price is $4000 by the time it's your "turn" that's just too bad for you?

******

"You can't have it both ways - either you respect Jizai's right to produce his work, and Takara's right to license their IP, or you don't."

I do. Is Jizai producing more of these toys? Is Takara producing more of these toys or looking to license them? No? Welp.

RobotBastard's picture
Posted by RobotBastard on 4 October, 2011 - 18:42
dude

"Dude, you're the one who brought it up."

Where did I say anything about financially supporting Jizai in my original comment? You brought it up in your first reply, when you made the goes-without-saying point that the creator doesn't actually make money from secondary market sales.

"Your argument is nothing more than "the law is the law and that's the end"."

You'll notice my repeated assertion in previous posts that this is a moral/ethical issue in addition to a legal one.

"Although I can see how someone with an original Jizai toy that's been bid up to crazy prices on the secondary market would have a vested interest in there not being bootlegs available."

I don't own any of Jizai's kits, so I don't see how that's relevant. You seem to be doing quite a bit of inference, largely based on my one comment about how I'd "rather" buy a legit Jizai kit on ebay, in an attempt to undermine the validity of my opinions or invent a perceived bias.

"I believe that, as the enjoyment of this particular creative expression is inseparably tied to a physical token (the toy), the bootlegs are improving the overal creative content of the world by making more of those tokens available. ...in this specific situation."

Here's the thing. This perceived benefit to the world (though really only to Transformers fans) in this specific situation is inherently dependent on a culture (in this case, the relationship between Chinese industrial producers and local government) in which copyright laws are not enforced. Without that corrupt system, you cannot have these single morally justifiable acts of bootlegging. Because the systematic failing enables the example you approve of, you are left with a position in which you approve of copyright protection, except when you want something you can't have. This is an absurd hypocrisy. Wheelie is not a public-domain book. He is not orphaned IP. He came out FOUR YEARS AGO. He is owned by a living person, licensed by a company engaged in the process of continuing to promote their licensed property and produce products for it.

We live in a world in which intellectual property can only be defended through legal means. I don't see a way in which we could trust people to only steal and reproduce IP when it's "right". Who would be the arbiter that determines which bootlegs are allowable and which should be enforced against? Even if we vote with our dollars, and only buy bootlegs which are morally unquestionable (by being products that could not otherwise be obtained, or whichever measure satisfies you) we are still feeding money into a system that enables the destructive infringement of IP. Regardless of the nature of this specific product, the choice we make is a systematic interaction.

"let's just make sure that we're on the same page here"

I believe Takara should license Jizai to sell his products whenever and wherever he wants. However, the fact that they have not done this yet does not mean that they give up any claim to their property.

"Is Jizai producing more of these toys? Is Takara producing more of these toys or looking to license them? "

This is a ridiculous point. To say that you respect the right to regulate one's intellectual property, then say that their property is up for grabs if they don't reproduce it for four years, is to say that you don't respect their rights at all.

recognizer's picture
Posted by recognizer on 4 October, 2011 - 19:45
You're what's wrong with copyright arguments

If you refuse to do anything other than scream "copyright! COPYRIGHT! COPYRIGHT!!!!" then it's impossible to even start having a discussion with you.

All that you've done in your post is say "the law is the law, and you have to obey the law no matter what!" You might have had a point when you talked about "bootleggers profiting off the work of someone else", but then you even walked that back to a matter of mere compliance with the law. If you'd said "buying these bootlegs doesn't give any money to Jizai" then I might have agreed with you, but you yourself say that you don't care whether or not he gets any money.

"Even if we vote with our dollars, and only buy bootlegs which are morally unquestionable (by being products that could not otherwise be obtained, or whichever measure satisfies you) we are still feeding money into a system that enables the destructive infringement of IP."

People making copies of a Wonderfest toy are hardly the first (or the worst) people you should be complaining about when it comes to "destructive infringement of IP".

See, this is why I keep bringing up the "who's actually making these toys" thing, and why I keep going back to the "who gets money" thing. The purpose of IP protection is to allow creators (or the persons who bought the rights from them) to derive money from the reproduction of their work. If the rightsholder in question is clearly not interested in reproducing that work, then explain to me why it's such a terrible transgression for someone else to do it. Please try to extend your thinking further than "well the law says it's against the law".

RobotBastard's picture
Posted by RobotBastard on 5 October, 2011 - 00:12
I don't want to get in

I don't want to get in between you two, but I want to say I've been finding this whole discussion really fascinating, with points that seem reasonable on both sides. However, RB, your latest response seems to be a straw man attack more than anything else; it doesn't even seem to be responding to what Recognizer's actually said. I don't have anything else to say, I'm just a little disappointed that a really good discussion is headed this way. Anyway, that's the end of my involvement, carry on.

SpaceRunaway's picture
Posted by SpaceRunaway on 5 October, 2011 - 17:19
What?

Really, I think that is a pretty broad generalization to make there man.

"...that any situation where most fans are deprived of something is an aggregate bad, and any situation where something is made more widely available is an aggregate good"

...let's face it, Wonderfest is totally hyped on the Hot Toys / Secret Base / Gargamel type-world where everything is "limited edition" in "super small quanitities" that rages over the hobby over the last few years. "Buy now to avoid disappointment" It's just a type of "branding" that only benefits manufacturers, and secondary market speculators. It doesn't benefit fans of the shows/characters.

And keep in mind, we're talking about a bootleg die-cast of a bootleg of a bootleg resin kit. We're comparing a bootleg resin model kit, which is pricy for the quantitiy made and it's origin of release, with a bootleg fully assembled die-cast figure.

Regardless of the one-time legality, these were already bootlegged several times previous to this.

I guess it's the old "Who owns a bootleg?" comes into play.
Does the product's creator?
Does the company owning the copyright?
Is it the artist who created the character?

To me it's the artist who created the character - then the company who holds copyright - not the guy who did a sculpture of a character someone else created...

To me it is a shame that it's blatant. But how many TF fans you know that would rather a resin kit than die-cast?

The Big R's picture
Posted by The Big R on 4 October, 2011 - 14:37
get your facts straight

"we're talking about a bootleg die-cast of a bootleg of a bootleg resin kit."

Absolutely incorrect. Jizai is granted a temporary license by Takara to produce his kits. I can't find a photo of the Jizai resin kit boxes showing the Takara-Tomy licensing sticker, but you can see an example of it if you look at the box for the miniature Predaking by Gung's Borchitect (often mistakenly credited to Jizai, as they are somehow associated).

recognizer's picture
Posted by recognizer on 4 October, 2011 - 17:41
ok...

Yeah it's a one day license. After that day, if it is sold, even by the creator: it's a bootleg. All 200 sold out IIRC. These and the boots were all over Y!J a few years back... and many who wanted one- official or otherwise- were left out in the cold.

If it was someone bootleging Gylos, then I could see where you're coming from... but this was much more one-off... and something TF wouldn't likely produce officially.

We can argue semantics all you want... I doubt the people made themselves a yacht selling these ;) and i think fans of TF have been served quite well by all the bootlegging and 3rd party stuff far more than Takara on a lot of non movie stuff for a few years now. If Takara cared, then they would have shut these guys and all the others down a long time ago.

The only reason I can see getting upset is if you bought the resin kit for a huge markup,
or are trying to profit from WF stuff on the secondary...
which in itself is pretty twisted (the licenses are pretty clearly aimed at fan service and not mega $$ales!)

otherwise why is it bad for others to join in the fun too? So some dudes can profit on the secondary re-selling the kit? I can't see any reason to get so worked up.

The Big R's picture
Posted by The Big R on 4 October, 2011 - 19:04
To be honest i was much more

To be honest i was much more interested in the custom paint job you did on Rodimus. Kudos for that, he looks awesome !! I could never have the guts to try something like that, id probably end up ruining my toy.

Mazinkaizer's picture
Posted by Mazinkaizer on 3 October, 2011 - 17:02
Thanks, I am pretty proud of

Thanks, I am pretty proud of that...even more so because it's a Hasbro Rodimus, not a Takara as most people think. It was scary to take this on, but Ive painted a few things in the past so I went for it. Glad you liked it

chachipower's picture
Posted by chachipower on 3 October, 2011 - 20:38
I've been considering adding

I've been considering adding MP-09 to my collection, any chance you might post a review any time soon? I'm currently at odds between MP-09 Rodimus and MP-08 Grimlock. would really like to get your take on this since you have both. My Mp-10 Optimus could use some company since he's my first masterpiece. If you do decide to go ahead with a review on one of those, could you also explain the difference between a Takara MP and a Hasbro since i was also fooled by the pic. Thanks for taking the time to reply to the comments. TILL ALL ARE ONE !!

Mazinkaizer's picture
Posted by Mazinkaizer on 3 October, 2011 - 21:12
Hasbro MP figures tend to

Hasbro MP figures tend to lean towards being more accurate to their original G1 toy, whereas TakaraTomy's are generally striving to be more accurate to how the character looked in the cartoon. A more relaxed paint budget and all. The Hasbro version of Rodimus came with an extra Matrix and a Targetmaster instead of the trailer for Rodimus Prime's vehicle mode. You may have better odds getting Rodimus at your local Toys 'R' US than Grimlock who was sold about a year or so ago, but Grimmy looks like he'd be much less frustrating when going between modes.

But that's just me.

Detective Barricade's picture
Posted by Detective Barricade on 3 October, 2011 - 22:17
Niice, i actually used to

Niice, i actually used to have a G1 Grimlock when i was a kid. I understand the Transformation process is almost the same with a few added gimmicks here and there, plus he's all over ebay and Amazon. Your probably right though, after watching some people on youtube get irritated trying to transform Rodimus i think i'll just go with Grimlock, the dude has more sentimental value. Plus he literally kicked Unicron's a**, haha

Mazinkaizer's picture
Posted by Mazinkaizer on 3 October, 2011 - 22:32
Well Vf5ss did a review for

Well Vf5ss did a review for the MP-09 and the Hasbro is pretty much the same thing that its probably not even worth doing the review for a color change, however you never know. I didnt find Masterpiece Grimlock on the site but again, there are already so many reviews on Grimlock out there and I already have my hands full that it probably wont happen.

That being said, I really don't transform my Masterpiece figures ever. I've never ever transformed my Rodimus. The only one Ive transformed is the Grimlock for this review. So I cant base my preference on that aspect but I kind of lean towards Rodimus.

Here a rundown of the differences between the 2 rodimus's. The Hasbro has a more intricate but less detailed flame on his chest. The one I used in my custom Hasbro sports the shape of the Takara one. The Hasbro has a more brownish maroonish color. The Hasbro has a darker face and hands, G1 detailing in the legs as well as red legs instead of Dark gray. Whatever defects were present in the Takara Version 1, were fixed for the Hasbro version. I did a video comparison on youtube also if you wanna see the differences. BTW just got my MP-10 today, havent checked it out but it seems like a good place to start your MP collection!

chachipower's picture
Posted by chachipower on 4 October, 2011 - 21:56
Indeed, i gotta say MP-10 is

Indeed, i gotta say MP-10 is incredibly breath taking. Dare i say its the reason i got back into collecting Transformers now after being strictly a Chogokins collector for so many years. I've always wanted an Optimus but MP-01 and MP-04 just seemed like bricks in comparison to this new model. Thanks again, and thanks for pointing out the differences between Hasbro and Takara, really helped.

Mazinkaizer's picture
Posted by Mazinkaizer on 4 October, 2011 - 22:55
Man, that Rodimus looks

Man, that Rodimus looks awesome! It's WAY cooler than mine! As for the Wheelie, I'll definitely pass. It's not the toy's fault, I just don't have a huge connection to the character (although IDW's Spotlight Wheelie definitely made me appreciate him). I'm glad he was done well, though.

Jmann's picture
Posted by Jmann on 4 October, 2011 - 00:02
 
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