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Extremis Iron Man

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23 comments posted
Thanks

Thanks not only for the great review but for being an "extremis" hater too. I couldn't stand that story, and it totally ruined Iron Man, the character and the movies, for me. I still have mad respect for Warren Ellis, but I see the words "Adi Granov" and I go running. That guy seems to attract crap wherever he goes.

I also noticed the "new" in-store price point for these Marvel Legend figures: $17.99??? These were an "ok" value at best at $10, and you can get a few of the peg-warmers at BBTS like the Iron Mans for $10-11, but wow. That is ridiculous.

Masters of the Universe Classics is $22 a piece and a slightly better value per figure, kind of, but wow, really? $17.99? I hope folks realize that when they're buying a whole wave, that's basically a much better buy-one-and-done Hot Toys figure.

The Big R's picture
Posted by The Big R on 1 March, 2012 - 09:13
Eh, I don't see how the

Eh, I don't see how the Extremis tropes would ruin the movie for you... he's still just a normal incredibly smart dude with a battery in his chest in the film, and he's had an artificial heart or some minor technological implants multiple times throughout the comics. The actual suit design is pretty rad, too, but no, I am no fan of Granov's actual artwork.

Price-wise, I don't think comparing to older releases is all that relevant, since value today comes down to comparing to what else is on the shelf today. Everything's gotten more expensive, so unless you just aren't going to buy any more toys, pining for the 'good old days' doesn't really get you anywhere. The 6" figures have been over $15 for a while now, and I mean, no it's not ideal, but it's also still not that much in the grand scheme of things. I've picked up this guy, the new ML Klaw, and will grab the red Iron Man when I find it, and have no complaints.

Prometheum5's picture
Posted by Prometheum5 on 1 March, 2012 - 09:58
Heh, good point

"Iron Man gets a new heart" is one of those go-to-the-well stories for when you run out of Iron Main ideas, sort of like Wolverine finding out who he is or Superman dying.

RobotBastard's picture
Posted by RobotBastard on 1 March, 2012 - 12:31
Not to get too off topic, but

Not to get too off topic, but I went back and checked... this figure is $11.99 on BBTS, as listed in my review, and I paid $15.44 at WalMart, so I dunno where you got $17.99 from. For $15, I'm totally satisfied and looking for the red version.

Prometheum5's picture
Posted by Prometheum5 on 1 March, 2012 - 23:43
Almost everywhere

Almost everywhere else, the average price for Marvel Legends is $17.99. TRU, online, ebay. Target has them for $15 a pop too, but note only the Iron Mans are $12 @BBTS. I agree it's a fair price for this Iron Man, but I still think it's a bit high for a retail toy line with no accessories. And really, who gets only Iron Man? You kinda need the others too.

I don't want to get too into pricing again here- as I guess some wealthy folks on this site think discussing price and value is "wrong" or "complaining"- but at some point these things become so expensive to *not* put it into past perspective really does folks a dis-service, especially the new collector.

It's not "looking back at the good old days" - it's keeping things in perspective, and not buying into the hype of the latest and greatest. Ignoring the increases and keeping quiet about it or complacent does nothing but encourage the increases and then eventually the toys stop coming because no one can afford them or wants to pay so much. It's pretty much at that point for kids today, hence their move to Lego and such and video games. Turning a blind eye to an oncoming truck doesn't make it suddenly disappear. Over the last 5-6 years inflation on toys - especially at US retail - has gone completely out of control. Profits are up but the price goes up too? Since Mattel did DCUC at $17ish price, Hasbro seems to be playing that game too. I mean, to get a complete Terrax figure, and every Series 1 character, you're looking at at least $87... and at that point might as well save your money and go Hot Toys.

The Big R's picture
Posted by The Big R on 2 March, 2012 - 10:57
Guess you got, first world

Guess you got, first world problems ┐(´~`;)┌

VF5SS's picture
Posted by VF5SS on 2 March, 2012 - 11:34
Ok I'm gonna make an

Ok I'm gonna make an effortpost before R-san gets mad.

I honestly think you are overstating the problem of price here. In my experience from listening to TF reviewers like Vange1us and the torrent of whining from any given /toy/ thread I find that collectors of US retail figures are often quite accomplished bargain hunters so MSRP isn't that big a deal. I mean are you really arguing $5 difference on a toy?

Understandably price is daunting for new collectors, but I think it's more important to teach someone there is more to a figure than its monetary value. The Vinyl scene is full of high end pieces that honestly don't do much outside of look pretty and float in a bath tub. Any new collectors can cut his or her teeth on all those lovely sales on HobbyLink Japan before tackling the big guns. I know the secondary market tends to be terrible, but what CDX and other social media websites allow is for some networking so fans can help each other out with trades and bargains or what have you.

" And really, who gets only Iron Man? You kinda need the others too."

That's more of a personal choice than anything really related to the toy itself. I know the Build-a-figure incentive tries to change that but to anyone not interested that piece is either a chunk of plastic for the junk drawer or fodder for sale or trade.

I do not see Ben's review nor most reviews on this really extol the virtues of "latest and greatest" or hype products just due to their newness.

Since there is not much we as the minority of US retail consumers can do to change prices on these things (especially considering how many people bargain hunt for them), I feel like trying to goad us into being outraged is misguided. And if the current state of affairs and pricing bothers you that much, then maybe you need to take stock of whether or not these products are satisfying you personally. In the end, all we can hope for is some toy to make someone happy.

We can not turn back the clock on entertainment media affecting toy sales. All we can do is promote the virtues of the physical medium.

Also I do not appreciate the implication that most of us are rich. I paid for most of my Valkyrie squadron by lugging boxes of liquor around. I'm no rugged individualist, but I know it takes money to get what you want sometimes.

Personally I think liquor is a bigger money sink than toys as all the high end wines and hard booze get you in the scheme of things is tickled taste buds, a good long stream of urine, and possibly a headache the next morning ( ^w^);

VF5SS's picture
Posted by VF5SS on 2 March, 2012 - 12:54
price and profitability

"Ignoring the increases and keeping quiet about it or complacent does nothing but encourage the increases and then eventually the toys stop coming because no one can afford them or wants to pay so much."

Manufacturers are not idiots. If they could make more money by selling more copies of a toy at a lower price, they would. There's no margin in squeezing the most they can out of each individual customer, unless their sales are inexorably falling and they NEED to raise prices.

"Over the last 5-6 years inflation on toys - especially at US retail - has gone completely out of control."

There are a lot of factors here, from oil prices (which hit plastic goods harder than other industries, since, y'know, they're made of petroleum) to contracting markets for luxury products during economic troubles (and let's face it, collecting anything is inarguably a luxury). It's naive to treat toy prices as nothing more than a supply-demand relationship between the customer and manufacturer. Keeping this in perspective requires an awareness of the actual economic forces behind price changes.

"Profits are up but the price goes up too?"

Actually, if I'm reading their investor reports correctly, while Hasbro posted increases in revenue/earnings throughout 2011, their U.S.-Canada division reported a decrease in operating profit from 2010 to 2011 during all four quarters. While revenues for toy companies always go up in Q4, the drop in profits from 2010 likewise widened. Results in 2010 were better, with modest increases in profits for most of the year, but Q4 2010, the critical holiday season, is when Hasbro's profits took their first major hit.

recognizer's picture
Posted by recognizer on 2 March, 2012 - 14:59
Here

Paul, rather than quoting any investor reports, I'll keep it fun and show you this fun infographic. It presents the facts, without bias of investorspeak.

http://frugaldad.com/toy/

The Big R's picture
Posted by The Big R on 2 March, 2012 - 19:05
IDGI

I'm sorry, but I can't figure out what that infographic has to do with this discussion. I was directly addressing your claim that "profits are going up", by pointing out that Hasbro (the manufacturer of Marvel Legends, the toy line being discussed here) is actually riding on five quarters of decreased profits. I don't see anything about profit in that infographic. What I do see are references to sales, and revenue - which are not the same as profit.

I'm not sure what you mean by "bias of investorspeak", but I think this may be an example: When profits go down, Hasbro titles their quarterly reports with phrases like "Hasbro Reports Revenue and Earnings Growth for the Third Quarter 2011". This, for instance, may give a reader the false impression that Hasbro was booking higher profits for the last year, due to a failure to distinguish between revenue and profits.

Sure, the segment of that infographic claiming that toys are recession-proof is intriguing, but I simply don't have the patience right now to comb through their sources and determine whether the information cited has anything bearing on collectors' items, or if it is only relevant to toys marketed to children. Perhaps you could point me to which of their sources this information was culled from?

recognizer's picture
Posted by recognizer on 2 March, 2012 - 19:59
Look

Look at the bottom of the page that was linked, for the sources of the article. No matter what, when, or where I comment, you two will troll me relentlessly so why bother trying to explain, or add anything to a discussion beyond unfunny memes?

The Big R's picture
Posted by The Big R on 2 March, 2012 - 20:25
I'm trying to engage you

I'm trying to engage you honestly and intellectually. I'd expect at least a tiny bit of the same in return.

recognizer's picture
Posted by recognizer on 2 March, 2012 - 20:41
Do you have anything to add

Do you have anything to add to any thread you post in except for your intolerable condescending attitude and a lot of baseless speculation that you never, ever back up in your posts?

To be frank, there are many more people on this website other than just me and Kyo Kusanagi over there who see nothing but uninformed arrogance in your posts.

You've derailed a thread again and I am losing patience. As I said before, you need to change your attitude.

VF5SS's picture
Posted by VF5SS on 2 March, 2012 - 21:02
" I'll keep it fun..." That

" I'll keep it fun..."

That wasn't fun at all ( -w-);

VF5SS's picture
Posted by VF5SS on 2 March, 2012 - 20:01
I'm sorry, I'm in business

I'm sorry, I'm in business school. I believe in professionally prepared and audited financial documents, not pretty little graphics posted by troll commentors.

I am also sure that I have no sympathy for you being unable to deal with Andrew and Paul's trying to respond to and engage with you because I know that you have been warned in the past not to be a pain. As usual, you have blown right over the content of the review to proselytize.

Prometheum5's picture
Posted by Prometheum5 on 3 March, 2012 - 02:23
whatever.

Warned by who? And for what? You three guys are the only people I have ever had any issues with online (and I know all three of you have your own issues with others) in all my life - whatever. I'm one of the folks for years who's been clicking those links on the right, which in turn gets you free stuff to review. I talk about the toys or serious stuff, you guys get personal or try to make piss poor attempts at being comedians. I believe in not defending big companies that do the wrong things over and over again. You believe people need to prepare a doctoral thesis in order to "prove you wrong" and that manufacturers are always right. I only wish I could be so well off to warrant having such a flippant attitude towards what I purchase, and a supportive attitude of predatory pricing.

I see you do the exact same thing over at ToyBoxDX Ben so it's the pot calling the kettle black.

The Big R's picture
Posted by The Big R on 3 March, 2012 - 10:01
great review

i love it. im big on the design and the 6" scale. its my missing gem in my iron man armory. i especially love when this site reviews non-Japanese plastic crack. thanks for the review.

rupertvalero's picture
Posted by rupertvalero on 2 March, 2012 - 15:25
Thanks! I'm always glad to

Thanks! I'm always glad to get a nice comment back on stuff. I always figure Iron Man fits well enough because he's like a robot, but being American made figures does seem to raise some eyebrows. Like I said in my review, I'm not fond of the storyline, but the Extremis suit was definitely a noticeable gap in my 6" collection as well. Here's hoping the current Resilient suit makes a Marvel Legends debut soon, since it was already released in the MU line. I think you can count on one hand the number of times an Iron Man figure of his current comic suit managed to come out before the suit was replaced in the comics. The next major gap we need to fill is the Heroes Return/SAFE armor from '98-01ish, which ended up becoming sentient. The first toy of that suit ever is coming out in Minimate form soon, but I have wanted a real action figure since its debut... it's the suit that got me into Iron Man to begin with.

Prometheum5's picture
Posted by Prometheum5 on 3 March, 2012 - 02:21
hall of armor

"the current Resilient suit"

That's the one referred to as the "Bleeding Edge Armor" right? Though it had some odd misnomer in the MU line. I'd like to see it in 6" too, as the smaller line doesn't quite do the complexity of the design justice.

"it's the suit that got me into Iron Man to begin with."

That reminds me... did they ever do an ML of the Modular Armor? I just stopped following the ML line after a while, but I was always hoping they'd do one...

recognizer's picture
Posted by recognizer on 3 March, 2012 - 21:12
The Modular Armor is my

The Modular Armor is my favorite too. I used to watch the cartoon and play the fighting games full of SMART BOMB and UNIBEAM!

I think they did a crappy one.

VF5SS's picture
Posted by VF5SS on 3 March, 2012 - 21:17
Ah, yeah, I found it, it was

Ah, yeah, I found it, it was in a two-pack, with the Mandarin, that I never saw in stores. It's way too musclebound - even more so than the earlier ML Iron Mans. The comic art of the Modular Armor was pretty beefy in the abdominal region, but relatively slim overall. The ML figure has those giant serratus muscles that prevent overmuscled action figures from fully lowering their arms, and its pectorals are so huge that they're pushing the red part of the chest up onto the shoulders. Gross.

recognizer's picture
Posted by recognizer on 3 March, 2012 - 21:24
Yeah, that 2-pack one is the

Yeah, that 2-pack one is the only modern Modular Armor figure, and it's pretty rough. That suit was pretty iconic during its run and used for a lot of tie-ins, like the games and stuff, so it seems weird to me that it hasn't gotten a better modern figure yet.

And yeah, Bleeding Edge = Resilient. I guess Bleeding Edge is the official name, and Stark's current company is Stark Resilient.

The other suit I'd love a 6" of is Iron Man 2020 or 2063. I was so pumped to get the little one, but I still prefer the bigger scale in general. Doomquest and 2020 are some of my favorite stories.

Oh, that, and the suit from Hypervelocity. Love that suit, love that miniseries.

Prometheum5's picture
Posted by Prometheum5 on 3 March, 2012 - 22:10
Iron Man FTW.

Iron Man FTW.

Jmann's picture
Posted by Jmann on 6 March, 2012 - 21:17
 
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