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VF-25F Messiah Valkyrie Alto Custom

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40 comments posted
GNU Braiger

Well Josh....

Now that you know and felt that the jigsaw valk is a total cop-out....does this mean that this experience has effected your feelings for this guy?

-R78

Rodimus78's picture
Posted by Rodimus78 on 29 April, 2009 - 10:45
Hey Rodimus, You raise a

Hey Rodimus,

You raise a good point. I think the difference for me is that with Braiger, it actually feels like a toy. I enjoy the experience. The parts are big and fit well. Another difference is that you really can't do a bryger in all three modes with a perfect transformation - but bandai has shown you can with the VF-25F. Why the partsforming? I understand if its the only option, like with Getter Robo and other classic super robots. But when the design is created with perfect transformation in mind and they just bypass all of that, well, that pisses me off.

------------------------------
CollectionDX Admin

JoshB's picture
Posted by JoshB on 29 April, 2009 - 13:01
Dear Josh:

Dear Josh:

Thank you...I definitely appreciate your honest feelings about where you stand between the two toys that I've brought up. I guess it's safe to say that I 98% agree with everything you said about the pros and cons about trans-forming & parts-forming. I've been very curious about your feelings towards this because it seems like a conflicting issue here and I couldn't help but ask. Seeing you playing with the GNU-Braiger and 1/100th scale VF-25F Messiah is like Day and Night=Yin and Yang. I'm glad that the moon didn't eclipse your fondness for the sun that shines on Braiger everytime you play with it on the beach.

I'm not fond of the parts-forming concept because I've felt that sort of thing is no longer necessary due to the fact that toy engineering has seemingly improved over the years. LEGO Transformers is a good example of that. There were some LEGO Transformable Bots that required parts-swaping 7 years ago, but that's no longer the issue. I mean that modelmaking dude who owns and runs FoundryDX has proved that you can make LEGO Jetfires that can transform without the parts-swaping. The evidence is all right here.

It's true that that there are some robots that requires that concept for the sake of consistencey like Braiger of course because it's a super robot. Due to their ability to defy the laws of physics--parts-forming works well with super robots, but I don't believe that it fits well with the Real Robots category at all due to logical plausibility. Obviously the Macross franchise fits well into that category...there's no question about that. Is there?

That being said,there's is no excuse for Bandai to ditch the perfect transformation technology for this Macross piece. It's very out of context...I admit that. I've heard that the Macross F model kits are transformable when assembled just like the MG/PG Zeta Gundams and they're manufactured from the same company for peace's sake.

Even though I'm not fond of Yamato's Braiger, I do appreciate the parts-forming engineering that they've put on to that toy. What you said is true, Braiger function more of a toy while The VF-Messiah functions more as a model kit...pathetically, it's a bad model kit. If you think of about it, The Messiah's DX Chogokin counterpart has that model kit feeling to it just the way the ABS plastic feels. Even it's accessories like the hands & gunpod feels like a model kit. I know this because I own the DX Chogokin Ozma so go figure.

I understand that Yamato did this for the sake of Anime consistency, but then again, a perfect transformation treatment for Braiger isn't that far for the dogs to fetch. I mean Studio Half Eye's Getter-Robo toy is proof positive...Right?

-R78

Rodimus78's picture
Posted by Rodimus78 on 1 May, 2009 - 00:42
It IS entirely possible, I guess...

The idea of a perfect transformation Braiger wouldn't be too tough (as they show it in the series, compared to the Getters slamming and the parts appearing), but it would have radically different proportions (due to the head and lower chest appearing out of nowhere, and Braiger's always had a tall head and be very expensive (and probably not that fun). I almost prefer the parts-swapping, myself. It adds more play value and the chance for freaky combinations apparently stolen from Baratac or Jeeg.

Rankarana's picture
Posted by Rankarana on 4 May, 2009 - 04:24
pain

Wow, I never expected you to slam a toy. I was hoping the get a Messiah toy of some sort, maybe I should just get the model yeah?

Btw, did you get the cold checked out?

SaiKare's picture
Posted by SaiKare on 29 April, 2009 - 10:57
Hell, most gunpla at that

Hell, most gunpla at that size doesn't use part swapping or uses minimal part swapping. In any case, this is something that just doesn't bother me, I'd gamble that it's something that I'd like. I love the VF-25 fighter and gerwalk mode,so I would get the Chogokin, but I just can't justify spending that much on a single toy at this point in my life. So yeah, I'm willing to give it a shot. I really WANT to like this line, what with Basara's Excalibur coming out eventually.

Mike's picture
Posted by Mike on 29 April, 2009 - 14:06
Good Gerwalk mode

Well if you want a "Good" gerwalk mode the DX Chogokin is not the best choice that is for sure...

http://www.collectiondx.com/review/chogokin/vf_25f_alto_custom

________________________________________
CollectionDX - Assistant Editor - Writer

Atom's picture
Posted by Atom on 29 April, 2009 - 14:22
If you want a good example

If you want a good example of small transforming Bandai toy, just look at their HCM Pro Asshimar.

VF5SS's picture
Posted by VF5SS on 29 April, 2009 - 12:02
TOTY!

Is this a joke by Bandai? Was this released on April 1st? Seriously, even putting aside my increasing hatred for all things Macross, this has gotta be the worst toy ever.

"This must be settled the way nature intended....with a vicious, bloody fight!"
Onyx Blackman
Principal, Flatpoint High

NekroDave's picture
Posted by NekroDave on 29 April, 2009 - 15:01
Ok, ok. Yes we all know of

Ok, ok. Yes we all know of the increasing trendiness of bashing Macross (because god forbid it has attained some mainstream popularity again). But if your point is that this travesty of a toy's shortcomings are solely Bandai's fault, and not because of it being a Macross item, then you're right.
This is a clear cut example of Bandai's continued rape of the Macross Frontier license, a drunken-prom-date act that is probably alienating some long-standing Macross fans thanks to over-exposure, over-merchandising, and not QCing the few genuinely worthwhile items.
And it's a shame because, trendy hating not withstanding, MF is a damn good show, and the Messiah is one of the best Valk designs since the original classic VF-1 series. Eff you, Bandai! Wipe yourself off, pull up your pants, and give the license to Yamato so we can (eventually) get a decent Messiah toy!

Diyenn78's picture
Posted by Diyenn78 on 30 April, 2009 - 10:59
Don't forget Hasegawa!

Instead of gimmicky "transforming model kits", just give us a nicely-proportioned Fighter-mode kit.

RobotBastard's picture
Posted by RobotBastard on 30 April, 2009 - 16:00
Yes, my point was that even

Yes, my point was that even if I were Macross' biggest fan, I'd still hate this toy.

But my disdain for Macross has little to do with it being popular in the "mainstream" (ha!). Heck, I love Star Wars. It's the repetitive-ness of the mecha design that drives me nuts. I'm sick of seeing planes that turn into robots. They've been milking this idea for 27 years now. Enough's enough. Do something new already.

Y'know what's a great album? "The Heart of Saturday Night" by Tom Waits. I love it. But if Tom Waits did nothing but release remixes of it for 27 years straight, I swear I'd kill him.

"This must be settled the way nature intended....with a vicious, bloody fight!"
Onyx Blackman
Principal, Flatpoint High

NekroDave's picture
Posted by NekroDave on 30 April, 2009 - 18:29
Very convenient logic there.

Very convenient logic there. Transforming planes are Macross's trademark, one of it's defining aspects, and a huge part if it's appeal to both old and new fans. And you think they should just drop that and do something else? Are you serious? Hey, Star Wars has had light saber duels in every movie, for more years than Macross has had transforming planes. Do you watch a Star Wars movie and think "Man, I'm tired of space battles and light saber duels, they should make a Star Wars where they ride horses and throw spears at each other. It makes me mad that there's no Star Wars with horses and spears."? No, you don't. If you wanted to watch a movie with horses and spears you'd probably watch another movie, preferably one that, y'know, didn't have space ships and light sabers. Same thing here. I want to watch a robot anime with robots that transform into something besides planes? I watch one of a dozen other shows. Want one with robots that don't transform at all? You got fifty other shows to choose from. Want one with no robots at all? Hundreds. Get the picture?
You don't like transforming planes? That's fine. You don't like Macross, for what ever reason you might reach for, no problem that's fine too. But you seem to go out of your way to periodically bitch about Macross and remind everyone of your "disdain" for it, as if you're very impressed with yourself for simply not liking something, and I just don't get that mentality. Don't misunderstand; you are entitled to your opinion, obviously, and you are entitled to share it with others, obviously. But if you simply don't like something, why repeatedly chime in? If you hated the food at a restaurant, would you go there, over and over again, just to eat the food and complain about it? Seems silly to me. And while I know your main purpose here was to comment on the toy and not the show, I get the impression that you couldn't wait to condemn this thing (even if justifiably) because it happened to have the Macross name on it.
Oh and by the way; when I mention "mainstream popularity" I'm referring to the fact that for various reasons, like a recent successful show, newer collectibles (the quality ones), and the recent Deculture Festival, Macross is undergoing a surge of popularity the likes of which it has not known since the days of the original series and movie, for better or worse (ha! yourself genius, condescend to someone else).

Diyenn78's picture
Posted by Diyenn78 on 1 May, 2009 - 09:54
"Very convenient logic

"Very convenient logic there. Transforming planes are Macross's trademark, one of it's defining aspects, and a huge part if it's appeal to both old and new fans. And you think they should just drop that and do something else? Are you serious? Hey, Star Wars has had light saber duels in every movie, for more years than Macross has had transforming planes. Do you watch a Star Wars movie and think "Man, I'm tired of space battles and light saber duels, they should make a Star Wars where they ride horses and throw spears at each other. It makes me mad that there's no Star Wars with horses and spears."?"

They don't necessarily have to drop transforming planes, but where is it written that they can't do something else in addition to them? If you're gonna have a long running franchise like that, I don't think it's too much to ask for a bit more variety. Using the Star Wars example, yes there are staple features, but there's like 8 billion different characters and weapons and vehicles and stuff. If Star Wars did nothing but release variations of X-Wings and Tie-Fighters for 30 years, yeah, you can bet I'd just as fed up with it as well. I haven't watched a Macross show since the original (which I liked very much by the way) but from a merchandising standpoint, they exhibit an astounding lack of creativity.

"You don't like transforming planes? That's fine. You don't like Macross, for what ever reason you might reach for, no problem that's fine too. But you seem to go out of your way to periodically bitch about Macross and remind everyone of your "disdain" for it, as if you're very impressed with yourself for simply not liking something, and I just don't get that mentality. Don't misunderstand; you are entitled to your opinion, obviously, and you are entitled to share it with others, obviously. But if you simply don't like something, why repeatedly chime in? If you hated the food at a restaurant, would you go there, over and over again, just to eat the food and complain about it? Seems silly to me. And while I know your main purpose here was to comment on the toy and not the show, I get the impression that you couldn't wait to condemn this thing (even if justifiably) because it happened to have the Macross name on it."

I can see why you would think this way and there's certainly at least some truth to it. The thing is, if I worked at that restaurant, I'd have to go there, y'know? And while I don't technically work here (ie, I'm not paid nor do I have any contract or anything obligating me to help out), I am sort of part of the crew. So whether or I like it not, until the day I decide to give it up I have to constantly see Macross stuff. I know I probably shouldn't say anything, but it can be a bit frustrating is all.

(For the record, we're 4 months into the year and there's already been 14 Valkyrie reviews (and another in queue in addition to news items posted about yet more to come..) not including the bootleg one I did. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure there's only been 3 instances where I've commented negatively on the franchise. In the aforementioned review I did, which was pretty obviously meant to be more funny than anything else; in a news comment where Sanjeev actually called me out about it and I just responded by posting a clip from the Simpsons and compared myself to Homer, again just for a laugh; and this one, where I meant only to comment on this specific toy and not the franchise itself. I don't recall any others but if you do, feel free to remind me. In the meantime, I'll go on the assumption that most of my venting is actually done over IM to Atom! lol)

"Oh and by the way; when I mention "mainstream popularity" I'm referring to the fact that for various reasons, like a recent successful show, newer collectibles (the quality ones), and the recent Deculture Festival, Macross is undergoing a surge of popularity the likes of which it has not known since the days of the original series and movie, for better or worse (ha! yourself genius, condescend to someone else)."

But this is not what "mainstream popularity" is. If a minor league sports team has a surge in popularity, good for them. But they're still a minor league team. If Macross was popular in the mainstream, you'd be able to ask most any stranger on the street about it and they'd know what you're talking about. I really don't think that's the case. Certainly not in this country and probably not even in Japan either. And when I make that comparison, I swear I'm not bashing Macross. Our entire hobby is not mainstream. So if I sounded condescending, I didn't mean to. But you're elevating Macross to a status it just doesn't have.

"This must be settled the way nature intended....with a vicious, bloody fight!"
Onyx Blackman
Principal, Flatpoint High

NekroDave's picture
Posted by NekroDave on 1 May, 2009 - 12:43
Dude, blog it. Wall of text

Dude, blog it. Wall of text makes people leave.

duke togo's picture
Posted by duke togo on 1 May, 2009 - 17:47
No, it doesn't. But in your

No, it doesn't. But in your case, I wish it did. Was that succinct enough for you?

"This must be settled the way nature intended....with a vicious, bloody fight!"
Onyx Blackman
Principal, Flatpoint High

NekroDave's picture
Posted by NekroDave on 1 May, 2009 - 18:23
Ditto

"No, it doesn't. But in your case, I wish it did. Was that succinct enough for you?"

Hear! Hear!
________________________________________
CollectionDX - Assistant Editor - Writer

Atom's picture
Posted by Atom on 1 May, 2009 - 18:50
Now, if they could

Now, if they could actually design a descent variable fighter from a Macross show/movie for a change instead of nearly-discontinuity-crap like the Messiah or [almost] every single other Valkyrie since the original VF-1s... I mean- sht- would it really be that painful for someone to produce a fully-transformable 9"+ toy of the VF-2SS w/ SAP!? ^^;
------------------------------
CollectionDX Staff

EVA_Unit_4A's picture
Posted by EVA_Unit_4A on 30 April, 2009 - 18:59
SHAME ON BANDAY

This has to be the most retarded part former I have ever seen.... Makes me more angry to think that BANDAY has done this utter disgrace to one of the coolest Valkyries ever... Shame on you BANDAY... I was looking forward to the VF100 line, but I'll just have to wait to see the reviews first, to see IF the can put it together in the upcoming releases. What a g**d d**m shame. And to see JOSH trying to push open a panel whit his mouth and then spit the little part is just too much, I feel sorry for you man, if I were some high BANDAY executive and ended up seeing your review, I will go HARAKIRI on myself right away, to end my misery... It's almost painful to see someone bashing a VF-25 but in the case of the VF100 I think it totally deserve it...

leonydas's picture
Posted by leonydas on 29 April, 2009 - 16:49
LEGO Macross

I did not know LEGO received the rights to make Macross toys (heh-heh). For $50-$70 I can get a big Lego playset if I wanted to and get more play value from it. But seriously though did Lego have the rights to make Transformers/ (ex: Optimus Prime). I thought I saw something like that.

Germanicus's picture
Posted by Germanicus on 29 April, 2009 - 17:05
I groaned audibly at the

I groaned audibly at the photo of the pile of crap. Yikes.

The Enthusiast's picture
Posted by The Enthusiast on 29 April, 2009 - 17:51
Just sell fixed-mode toys

You'd think that if they were going to go the partsformers route, they'd just charge a bit more and sell three fixed-mode toys (or charge half as much and sell individual fixed-mode toys.)

RobotBastard's picture
Posted by RobotBastard on 29 April, 2009 - 18:16
I'm not going to lie, I was

I'm not going to lie, I was laughing for a good bit while watching this video. When I first saw the pictures of this toy, I thought it looked great. Now... Not so much. Personally I kind of find this amusing when you consider the root of Kawamori's design always made it so that the toy could transform rather easily and realistically. And yet now, we have this toy which honestly, I've never seen so much part-swapping in my life.

Dkun's picture
Posted by Dkun on 29 April, 2009 - 18:37
The only thing that will

The only thing that will make me take an interest in the line is if they do the one from Macross II. And even then, I rather just see a non transformable Revoltech or GNU and save be the trouble of bad parts swapping.

VZMK2's picture
Posted by VZMK2 on 30 April, 2009 - 08:01
If Bandai could figure out

If Bandai could figure out how to make the model kit transform into GERWALK and fighter modes without the need for it to be taken apart first, I don't see why they couldn't have done the same here.

Decade010's picture
Posted by Decade010 on 30 April, 2009 - 14:11
Look at the Toynami 1/100

Look at the Toynami 1/100 valks. While not perfect, they are much better in terms of price and toy-ness. Even some of the Z Gundam MSiAs did this better. And of course lets not forget the 1/100 TT valks, or the 1/72 HCM. These have been done very well in smaller scales for over 20 years.

I really wanted to like this line since it was basically going to be the Macross-exclusive Robot Soul line. But now it's gone horribly wrong. I hope Bandai sees this and changes direction with less parts swapping and a lower price, since I was really looking forward to some of the later releases of some Valks that have not had a toy, like the VF2 and VF4. Maybe it's just an issue with how complex the VF25 is.

Although I'll admit that even if Bandai went on without changing I'd pay $50 for a VF2SS in this form, but I'd do so angrily.

The big issue is this, Bandai wants to do old stuff like the VF-1S in this form. Who would pay $50 for that when they could pay $90 for a 1/60 Yamato or 1/55 reissue? I'm worried that this line is why the Origins line has fallen off the radar.

duke togo's picture
Posted by duke togo on 1 May, 2009 - 18:04
Well, at least the VF-25 is

Well, at least the VF-25 is ALSO coming out in the Robot Soul line. Maybe that'll be superior.

Mike's picture
Posted by Mike on 1 May, 2009 - 18:18
Other Robots

Well, Macross Frontier has the transforming monster that goes from Monster mode to battroid mode, but I suppose it also has the crappy shuttle mode. But whatever, Macross has always had Destroids, which are a different kind of robot if you are sick of robots that transform into jets.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 2 May, 2009 - 03:47
Konig vs Auroran

Dear Jermey,

I hope you don't mind me asking you this but my curiosity has gotten the upper hand...

May I ask what's wrong with the VB-6's shuttle bomber mode? In what way does it look crappy?

I mean if you compare the New Monster's shuttle from Macross F with the Auroran's space-copter mode from Southern Cross...

It's a real no-brainer that one's is less crappier than the other and there's no contest.

I mean who would want a monster with whirly blades?

-R78

Rodimus78's picture
Posted by Rodimus78 on 2 May, 2009 - 11:31
Shuttle

The shuttle mode is just this big brown turd in space. It doesn't really do anything but float there in space and get shot. It's cool in Destroid mode, it's cool in battroid mode, but it's pretty bland in shuttle mode.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 2 May, 2009 - 23:11
Auroran Wins?

Now I see your logic. I really thought that the Monster's shuttle mode is way bigger than the standard Destroids and it's capable of carrying a Destroid to deploy.

I haven't finished seeing Macross F enough to watch it in action as a vehicle mode. That's disappointing to hear but I'll get over it. It sounds like that the Auroran's copter mode wins.

If Toynami decides to make the Auroran as a Masterpiece or a scale 1/100. Let's hope that they don't end up making it as a parts-former the way Bandai did with this Messiah piece.

-R78

Rodimus78's picture
Posted by Rodimus78 on 6 May, 2009 - 17:08
Well, *I* personally don't

Well, *I* personally don't mind the shuttle mode of the Koenig Monster. Sure, the brown is a bit ugly, but it sorta makes sense to make the thing mobile. The battroid mode, however, seems totally redundant. It's barely mobile and I'm not sure it can even fire the four main guns on top (and even if it could, why bother: the regular mode is perfectly capable of laying down the smack).

Anyway, R78, I think if Toynami decides to do anything Southern Cross, we'll see the Spartas/Hovertank long before the Auroran. Probably the even the Logan before the Auroran, too...

--
Sanjeev

Sanjeev's picture
Posted by Sanjeev on 6 May, 2009 - 17:20
Well the idea of the

Well the idea of the Battroid mode is to give it regular close combat abilities. In the VFX-2 game it mainly uses its arm mounted launchers, which were full of missiles and Armored Core style grenade launchers.

VF5SS's picture
Posted by VF5SS on 6 May, 2009 - 21:02
Gotcha...I'm trying to

Gotcha...I'm trying to remember back to my VF-X2-playing days...it's been a while.

[nerd]I still don't quite recall: couldn't the regular destroid mode still fire the arm-mounted missile launchers and the grenade launchers? Thus, there'd still be no benefit to the battroid...[/nerd]

--
Sanjeev

Sanjeev's picture
Posted by Sanjeev on 6 May, 2009 - 21:25
Well the game didn't have

Well the game didn't have melee combat. Or any dynamic movement whatsoever. If it was the Macross PS2 game then maybe you could do dodge rolls and crouching.

VF5SS's picture
Posted by VF5SS on 6 May, 2009 - 21:45
Toynami + VB-6

Sanjeev,

What you just said sound very probable as far as the Spartas are concerned. Let's face it...The Spartas are the favorite sons of Southern Cross as the Valks are to Macross. So yeah they'll be the front runners for the Robotech Masters toy collectibles if Toynami decides to pursue it.

However, I pretty much doubt if the Logan would be on their list since that's it's the 'ugly duckling' of the group. Unless Tommy Yune gets on board to revamp the design and give it 3 variable modes. It could happen if he and Mr. George Sohn decides to make the effort worth, but I somehow doubt it. They'll probably pursue the Auroran over the Logan for the second wave if it really happens in the upcoming decade.

As for the VB-6's manuverability in battroid mode...Well yes it does look plausible.

In video game magic, you the player can do those moves just as Andy mentioned. if it can do dodge rolls in that mode then it would look pretty silly with those back-heavy, pipe cannons sticking out. I do see why you think the battroid mode looks like an afterthought. Personally, it doesn't both me at all since I like it. It's limitations in the show would dent my favor for it. If it performed those 2 stunts in the TV show, it might not hold in the suspension of disbelief, but it can in the game.

After all, in a video game you can always defy your limitations by cheating.

-R78

Rodimus78's picture
Posted by Rodimus78 on 7 May, 2009 - 00:22
Always late to the party!

Always late to the party! ;)

Well, this sure turned out to be a crappy toy. Wonder how Ben made out with his...

Anyway, for the record, I totally understand where Nekrodave is coming from. Seriously...14 friggin' Valk reviews (including multiples of the same damn toy design...just different color schemes)!? C'mon.

Still, I love Macross (old and new) and I love hearing about new toy offerings. I think the idea of one-man fighter aircraft transforming into humanoid robots will NEVER get old...to me, anyway. Removing those from Macross would be like removing music and love triangles! Who'd want that?

Oh, and I actually liked the Koenig Monster...*all* three modes!

And lastly, Rodimus78, you actually DO have to swap parts to get those FoundryDX Valks to transform: "Parts must be removed and relocated to achieve transformation."

--
Sanjeev

Sanjeev's picture
Posted by Sanjeev on 3 May, 2009 - 01:41
14 Valks and counting

Well, I can promise at least 5 more 1/60 2.0 reviews before this time next year. Max and Ben (yeah I called him Ben go cry about it) TV types, Cannon Fodder VF-1A, and the eventual Max and Miria VF-1J's then I'm done with classic VF-1's.

I'm collecting Macross right now so it ain't going anywhere no matter how much people cry about it. ;) never mind the other valk 2.0 reviews I know some of the other writers will be doing this year...cough...Sanjeev...cough...Shogundan...cough...

Do you remember love? I do :P

________________________________________
CollectionDX - Assistant Editor - Writer

Atom's picture
Posted by Atom on 3 May, 2009 - 12:45
Thanks for outing me,

Thanks for outing me, pal...now I have to worry about dodging Dave's van next time I see him...and I don't even have the toy I'm gonna review in hand! :P

--
Sanjeev

Sanjeev's picture
Posted by Sanjeev on 4 May, 2009 - 17:06
More Macross as well

I also have a Arii Regult Battle Pod, Hasagawa's VF-1S and VF-1A model kits coming up and an Orguss toy review if that counts!

Leonardo Flores
CollectionDX Staff Writer-West Coast Bureau

Modcineaste's picture
Posted by Modcineaste on 6 May, 2009 - 16:50
 
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