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Destroy All Podcasts DX Episode 46 - Twilight Q

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13 comments posted
EYYUUUURRRMMM

I don't really know where to stand with Oshii either.
There's kind of a balance with me when it comes to it. I'll watch Patlabor and go, feeling satisfied. Then later I'll balance it out by watching something like Avalon and just go back to the "Oshii neutrality square".

When it comes to anime directors, my favourite is usually Ryosuke Takahashi or Yasuhiro Imagawa.

I like Takahashi, because he can actually make a believable scif-fi enviroment (Apart from Layzner, which is set in 1996 and has still has Soviet Russia kicking about).
It's obvious he likes the military, which is evident in pretty much everything he's made. He also seems to like robots with "roller skates".

Daikengo's picture
Posted by Daikengo on 4 March, 2008 - 10:03
Takahashi

I like Takahashi a lot, but he is more versatile than just realistic sci-fi. Just watch his TV version of Osamu Tezuka's Phoenix, which is really good, but has many episodes without sci-fi and while there's some samurai military about, it's not a constant presence. But it does illustrate a problem I find with Ryousuke Takahashi: He has no sense of humor.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 4 March, 2008 - 13:19
I dunno, Chirico's first

I dunno, Chirico's first taste of alcohol in Votoms was pretty funny. And if you want, Gosterro from Layzner has his moments.

Daikengo's picture
Posted by Daikengo on 4 March, 2008 - 19:27
Haha.

Okay, he has very little sense of humor. :)

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 6 March, 2008 - 03:47
Sounds more than a little bit interesting

As a huge mark for Rod Serling's body of work, this sounds right up my alley. Thanks for giving me a head's up on a show I may not have otherwise have heard of. BT, are there any more anime programs of a similar type?

jaydubnb's picture
Posted by jaydubnb on 6 March, 2008 - 02:26
Hmm.

That's kind of a tough one, because I don't think a lot of anime really skews in the "weird but still mostly based in the mundane everyday" brand of sci-fi that Twilight Zone excelled at. I guess I could say the Memories anthology has a bit of that feeling to it, maybe Roujin Z, and perhaps Paranoia Agent or some of the other Satoshi Kon projects.
Another thought is Ultra Q, the predecessor to Ultraman, though it's live action. Ultra Q is sort of Godzilla + The Twilight Zone. I'm pretty sure Twilight Q is so named because it was supposed to be a combination of Ultra Q and The Twilight Zone.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 6 March, 2008 - 03:52
What?... That's It!?

That's all the titles you can think of from this subject? I'm a little disappointed in that short list. What about those 3 shojo anime shows like 'Please Save My Earth', and 'Godchild', and 'Serial Experiments Lain'? What those types? They all have that Twilight Zone vibe to them.

What about 'The Big O'? I can't believe you've left that one out. That's one of the most unique mecha anime shows out there. It's a compilation of Giant Robo + Batman: TAS + Fritz Lang's Metropolis + Twin Peaks equals a smorgasborg of noirish weirdness.

Yes the opening theme music from 'Big O' sounded like a ripoff from Queen, so what's the big deal about that? From what I've seen Brian May and Roger Taylor had been ripping themselves off with those embarassing remixes like 'We Will Rock You'....oh Christ...I shiver at sight of Pink singing that song. Oh why guys why?

Anyway, 'The Big O' theme is more of a homage to Queen than a ripoff. Please be grateful that it was less of a steal. I recommend anyone who is into mecha anime and future noir to watch this show. It's a whole lot better than Gravion and Godannar in which I couldn't stand.

One more thing, I've seen nothing wrong with Ishiguro Noboru expressing his techo-fetishism mixed with melodramatics in his work. From what I've seen in Classic Macross, he doesn't let his habits override his artistic obligation to the project. He keeps it professional. That's why Macross is legendary. Just be grateful that he's not f*cking George Lucas, because Lucas is the worst technophile in the business. If you want to talk about extreme technophiles? Lucas is your man to urinate on for sure. He's more compulsive on technology than Noboro. That's why his last SW Trilogy were horrendous and boring. Again, just be thankful that Noboro's obsession did mold him as a terrible filmmaker/corporate imperialist that Lucas turned out to be.


-Rodimus

Rodimus78's picture
Posted by Rodimus78 on 13 March, 2008 - 04:01
What?

Uh, I said there are not a lot of anime shows that have the weirdness mixed in with the mundane. Most Twilight Zone episodes feature perfectly normal people in normal contemporary times with weird stuff happening to them, like the woman who gets a phone call from her dead boyfriend, or the town controlled by the psychic child, or a dude who sells his soul to the devil. These are all normal people in normal situations and then something weird happens. Twilight Q is like that.

Big O is NOT. Big O is about a rich playboy/adventurer with a robot maid and a giant robot... that is NOT mundane. Lain is almost normal people then weird shit happens, but it's still kind of a sci-fi future, also I didn't like the show very much because I thought it was confusing just to be confusing and doesn't feel at all like Twilight Zone's straight forward, often moralistic approach.

I have not seen Please Save My Earth, but isn't it about PAST LIVES AS ALIEN SCIENTISTS ON THE MOON? This again is not really mundane. I was not interested in Please Save My Earth because it looked like a pretty boys possibly kissing each other series. I am not familiar with Godchild at all, but looking at the ANN entry, it looks like a rich, pretty boy vampire with a loli girlfriend, which sounds absolutely nothing like Twilight Zone to me. So basically... huh? I do not think the material you mentioned sounds at all like Twilight Zone.

As for Ishiguro, I LOVE Ishiguro TO DEATH and he is one of my favorite anime directors ever and I am always talking about how great he is. The reason I picked him as a director I would like to see do a one shot OAV and make it whatever he wanted is because I think he rules. I don't have a problem with his technofetish or his melodrama, but I said I understand why some people do. I don't know where you got the idea I was dissing him.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 14 March, 2008 - 14:20
Well....It's Just That...

it sounded a little negative when you've brought up Ishiguro's habits in his work. Bear in mind that not everyone takes the word 'fetish' or 'obssession' lightly. It's those kinds of words that the American public brands them as taboos.

Also, I've listened to your rants in most of your episodes everyday, and you're pretty critical, but constructive in a good way. I'm not saying that I'm condemning your comments begrudgingly, for I freaking love your style of review whether I agree with you or not. It’s just that you're known to go guncrazy on attacking Omauro Oshii in the past, and when one goes triggerhappy on a target, there’s bound to be innocence caught in the line of fire, and I’ve felt that Ishiguro is one of them.

For the record, I've listened to you talking about Ishiguro from the your episodes of SDF Macross and your Garland + Mazinger Z/Devilman review episodes many, many times. I've even listened to them in my sleep. It never crossed my mind that you're an opponent of Ishiguro. It just cut me a little off guard that you've brought up the words 'obssession' and 'fetish' when it comes to a genius who’ve done so much for the industry. I too love Ishiguro. I love that man with all my heart and all my soul. I love him as much as SHOJI KAWAMORI, Shinji Akamani, and Kazutaka Miyatake of whom I’ll always be grateful for co-creating Diaclone/Transformers together with Bob Budiansky and Marvel Comics. The goddamn transfans might have abandoned them for that sleazy American filmmaker but I haven’t, and I’ll never abandon then…especially Ishiguro.

The dude's work made me cry countless times. Lucas's work made me cry once and I HATE THAT S**T. This is crazy talk from a guy like me, but damn it…I love SF drama shows that makes me cry. What he did for Orguss was a hell of an experience for me...which reminds me, when are you going to bring us 'Orguss’ and it’s sequel ? What's holding you back? You've got to talk about Orguss in your podcast. It's one the most important SF series in Anime history. You must talk about Orguss.Please, please, please...give us Orguss.

Anyway, I want to say that I'm sorry for giving you the impression of you attacking Ishiguro as a technophile and comparing him to George F##KING Lucas. That wasn't my intention at all and I sincerely and deeply apologize for that.

About Lucas, you're not by any chance going to bash his Star Wars:Clone Wars fad in your next podcast in the future...are you?

Yeah, Big O is about a playboy/adventurer/private investigator, a robot maid, a one-eyed butler, a giant robot, but it’s also about a mysterious city of normal people with mysterious past lives, and weird things happened to them which is based on their lost memories. Isn't that a little mundane? I disagree with ‘Please Save My Earth’ not being a Twilight Zone pastiche. Dude, the show focused on normal teenagers who shared collective dreams of alien researchers living on the moon. As the series progresses, the alien scientists were REVEALED as the teens of their past selves. That’s the plot twist man.

Maybe ‘Godchild’ doesn’t count as much, but , but ‘Please Save My Earth’ and ‘Lain does. These 4 shows might not be 100% mundane tackling with moral play, and not as straight forward as Twilight Zone, but the 3 things they have in common with Twilight Zone are plot twists and dramatic irony and suspense. Besides, Twilight Zone didn’t always focus on stories that are mundane: such as the ones with 3 astronauts landing on a colony of people displayed as statues, a lonely 23rd century convict on a desert planet making out with a android girl, a greedy niece caretaking her dying uncle’s robot, A near future where an ex-human boxer fighting robot boxers in the ring, 5 weirdos imprisoned in a cynlinder which revealed them to be discarded toy dolls, a young woman in a store stalked by mannequins etc, etc.

And you don’t consider those 4 anime shows to be Twilight Zone pastiches? Give me a freaking break…Mr. Jeremy sir.

As far as Mamuro Oshii’s concerned….yeah, you’re right about ‘Ghost In The Shell’ as being slow with a dull plot. I don’t recommend anyone who is hyperactive to watch it, but I was surprised you’ve cut the dude some slack for a change when you reviewed his work in ‘Twilight Q’. I really think you should’ve cut him off a little slack with his ‘Ghost In The Shell’ movie. It really wasn’t that bad. It should be recommended as a reference tool for animation students who want to do experimental animation. If not that, then it’s definitely ‘Twilight Q’.

IMO, The ‘Ghost In The Shell’ movie is not the most boring cyberpunk anime ever. You want to talk about boring? I’ll tell you boring………………..Read-my-text…….LAIN…..NO….JOKE…..L-A-I-N! That is definitely the most boring, convoluted, slowest paced cyberpunk, twilight zone-ish anime in history. It’s so boring, the damn thing even tops ‘Dallos’. Swear to god, if you got an insomniac binge, the best home remedy for this problem is definitely Lain. The story is boring, the pacing is boring,the graphics are boring, even the opening theme music is boring. It just boggles the mind that this yawn-making show was directed by the dude who worked on ‘Space Adventure Cobra’. F**k Mamuro Oshii huh? I say f**k Ryūtarō Nakamura. F**k Nakamura in the *** with George Lucas' ******* ****!

-Rodimus

Rodimus78's picture
Posted by Rodimus78 on 19 March, 2008 - 02:17
Retort

I think the words "obsession" and "fetish" are completely appropriate with regard to Ishiguro's work because they are consistent elements of his work, the same way Mamoru Oshii's work contains a lot of weird fish eye close ups, dogs, slow pans across talking people, et cetera. I would also say that live action directors do the same thing. Fritz Lang, for example, director of Metropolis, M, and other classics, consistently has government/authority figures who are totally incompetent and often casually cruel, lots of darkness and shadow (he was one of the originators of the film noir style), et cetera.

Maybe the words "obsession" and "fetish" are a little hyperbolic, but my style is always a little hyperbolic.

Oshii DESERVES the heat I throw at him. He is a brilliant director, but is also very, very self-indulgent, and it frustrates me when he indulges himself instead of making the much tighter, better film he is clearly capable of. Ishiguro rarely makes this mistake, but I feel neither of these directors are for everyone. I appreciate Oshii's thoughtful ruminations and complex political plots, with spartan, realistic characters and plots. I appreciate Ishiguro's energy, attention to detail, and fun, along with his engaging (though perhaps over the top) characters. Both really like to have fine detail work in the worlds they create. But this is probably not going to please fans of madcap humor or tender, realistic love stories. Oshii is cold as ice and Ishiguro's romances are overblown and melodramatic. I am down with either approach, but they are both something that may not appeal to a mainstream audience.

I'm not really interested in discussing George Lucas that much. He's not an Asian film director and while Star Wars certainly had a significant impact on the asian sci-fi of the 80's, Yamato had a significant impact on Star Wars. And that's really all the further I feel the need to go with it. We're not going to review Clone Wars or Star Wars or any of its variants; we are primarily a podcast about asian film and anime of a sci-fi or genre bent.

Big O definitely has the city of people trying to find their memories, but that is a background element. It is not a show about people with lost memories anymore than Gundam is a show family bickering. Big O is a show about a millionaire Playboy of the Batman variety that has a giant robot; the memories thing is secondary. Gundam is a show about young kids getting sucked up into a space war and being force to pilot giant robots; the Zabi family strife and the strife in Amuro and Char's families are secondary. See what I mean?

I suppose there are more overly sci-fi episodes of Twilight Zone, but I feel like they are the exception, not the rule, and are not what I think of when I think of Twilight Zone. Mostly I am thinking of the mundane every day people tossed into some weird moral dilemma when I think Twilight Zone.

Like I said before, I have not SEEN Please Save My Earth or Godchild and I'm not gonna recommend a show I haven't even watched. I told you I dismissed Please Save My Earth based on it looking like a pretty boys maybe kissing each other show, so I didn't investigate very much. I also only watched about one episode of Lain and thought it was confusing on purpose and super boring. Are you really surprised that I did not recommend shows I haven't seen/don't like?

As for Ghost in the Shell, please remember that particular episode of the podcast was a joke and we weren't seriously discussing the movie, we were just needling Dave and Joel from the Fast Karate for the Gentleman podcast because they told us not talk about Ghost in the Shell. :) We will probably do a serious review of the movie at a later date.

I really do think Oshii is brilliant, but he is so sold on his own hype that he sometimes makes prentious, unwatchable pieces of crap because he is convinced everything he does is incredible. When he is held in check by a good producer or editor or writer or even when another talented director is directing his work, it tends to be fantastic. If you can keep Oshii from being too self-indulgent he can make fantastic film, but if you let him go wild he usually makes boring garbage, which is a heartbreaking waste of talent.

-J

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 20 March, 2008 - 13:26
Dear Jermey...YES I Do Understand, NO I Don't Get It.

Dear Jermey,

I've thought about what you said about Mr. Oshii and does he deserve the dirt you throw at him in your review? My answer is YES.

I've thought what you said about the words fetish and obssession, and do they co-relate Mr. Ishiguro's work in a positive manner? My answer is YES.

I've thought about what you said about the real premise of Big O. Is it more about ambiguous people with ambiguous backgrounds in their lives? or is more about a Batman-like character w/ a Batman-like Giant Robo? I see what you mean now. Roger Smith is the main character, not just the people. It's more about him so answer is YES, I see what you mean.

I've thought about what you said about reviewing shows that you haven't watched or the ones you lack passion in reviewing. Am I suprised of you for not seeing shows that you don't recommend people to see...really? My answer is NO, I'm not suprised. You have every right not to watch shows you don't feel comfortable of reviewing. Let someone else do it.

You said that you primarily review Asian films + Anime on SF/Fantasy, Martial Arts etc. on your podcast only, right? Do I understand that? My answer is NO, I don't get it. That sounds a little confusing to me, if not contradictive. If you talk about Asian stuff, then how do you explain 'Cheerleader Camp', 'Wild Things', 'Hollywood ZAP!', 'Darkwing Duck', and Mel Gibson's embarassing early roles? I don't think those episodes you've broadcasted counts as Asian media. Please clarify.

Last but not least, YES I do understand that 'Ghost In The Shell' was a parody in your podcast and you guys being so-called 'jerks' about it (in which I don't see you guys as one) doesn't bother me at all. I've found it very entertaining. Who the heck were they for tell you not to talk about 'Ghost In The Shell'? They don't own your podcast, you own yourselves. You have every right to criticize what's on your mind, so good for you for doing it. Again, I do see your point about Mamouro Oshii's flaws. He's a brillaint filmmaker, but he's grossly pretentious and it can be contaigous in which I guess that explains f***ing 'Lain' which tops 'Dallos' IMO. It does take an investor or an executive producer to keep his kinks and quirks under control when doing a movie like 'Ghost'. Even though it was a parody, You've made some good points about it anyway, so kudos for being brave. You have every right to be bold.

-Rodimus

Rodimus78's picture
Posted by Rodimus78 on 2 April, 2008 - 19:26
I can understand Jeremy's

I can understand Jeremy's reason for saying how Twilight Q defiantly follows the Twilight Zone pattern of normal people having weird things happen in their mundane lives (if not giving us the twist ending clearly). It certainly isn't anything like the other titles suggested earlier that don't follow the formula presented.

Chris@StudioToledo's picture
Posted by Chris@StudioToledo on 16 May, 2010 - 15:22
Non-Asian Stuff

All the non-Asian things you mention are ST episodes. ST episodes are the ones that "don't count". They are just silly off topic reviews that we occasionally do to blow off steam. That's why they don't count towards the proper DX numbering and such. Also none of those reviews is serious.

As for Ghost, they were just baiting us, and we took the bait, and baited back. It's just a silly game. Not at all serious. :)

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 3 April, 2008 - 22:58
 
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