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Destroy All Podcasts DX Episode 16 - Michael Bay's Transformers

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21 comments posted
Utter Rubbish

This was a truly awful movie , I feel much dumber (and poorer) for watching this.Michael Bay managed to make a movie worse than Pearl Harbour.

djdrastic's picture
Posted by djdrastic on 24 July, 2007 - 02:04
Shame on all of us who went to see it

I was also one of the foolish who went to see the movie in the theater, and I kick myself every day for it. I even knew better. I hate Michael Bay. He's not a good director at all, and I helped contribute to the success of this film. I feel so conflicted.

Believe it or not, I think Jeremy is actually right in saying that the boy-and-his-car story was the best part of the whole movie. In fact, I would say that this was actually the closest in spirit to the original series. In season 1 of Transformers, and even the comic book, the story was told through the eyes of Spike (or Buster).

The only thing I would have done differently is to have Bumblebee talk.

Everything else was WRONG. I HATED John Turturro in this movie. I hated the macho army crap that has NOTHING to do with Transformers. The hackers were also lame. You could have scrapped all of these and tied everything else together in a much more simple way.

And what's this crap about Michael Bay not wanting to have Transformers that change mass when they transform. I just want to wring his neck and scream, "You're MICHAEL BAY! NOTHING you make is realistic! Why are you drawing the line here?!"

I kind of have to disagree with Jeremy about whether or not there should have been more robot scenes. I think there should have been WAY more scenes with the robots, especially the Decepticons, who are BARELY in this movie. I can see his point that the robots were annoying, but that's a problem with Michael Bay's directing. A movie with the title "The Transformers" should be about the Transformers.

And that leads me to my biggest problem with this movie. Apparently, despite being given the task of making a Transformers movie, Michael Bay wanted to make GI Joe, and it shows. The robots don't even kick butt in this movie. Instead, most of the butt-kicking is being done by THE ARMY! What the hell?! THE ARMY?!!? Come on!

This makes the same mistake as the 1998 American remake of Godzilla, in that it forgets that antagonists cannot be stopped by human military. Bullets and bombs don't work on Godzilla, and they CERTAINLY don't work on Decepticons. Stop french-tonguing the army, Michael Bay!

And I knew this movie was in trouble the moment Michael Bay started dissing the original series. Say what you will about the stupid plots and poor animation of the original series, but the one thing that made that show magic was the characterization. Every character for the first two seasons had a memorable personality, and Michael Bay didn't (and probably didn't know how to) translate this into a feature length film. Even the original Transformers: The Movie does this, but Michael Bay's adaptation doesn't.

There is no characterization at all. There is no set-up to Megatron and Starscream's rivalry. You don't even get a good idea for Bumblebee's personality, because he doesn't even talk! Ironically, making him mute made him more like Herbie than being a VW Beetle ever would have. He was like a big dog, basically.

In the end, Michael Bay could have made this a much simpler film by just concentrating on the Sam storyline, and using that to slowly introduce the Transformers, instead of going into this ADHD nightmare of four different human-driven storylines. And he could have lopped a good hour off of the movie in the process. This movie really, REALLY needed to be an hour shorter.

And to finish off my rant, I really don't understand why Spike's name was changed to Sam. It's not like Spike isn't a name. I don't think that it was asking too much to keep the original name. Sure, it's an unusual name, but it IS a real name. I mean, is Mikaela a common name? Hell no! I don't know anyone named Mikaela, but I know a person named Spike.

I daydream about punching Michael Bay in the mouth.

~Neil

___________________________
http://www.dasiencomic.com/

117ufcbetting's picture
Posted by 117ufcbetting on 14 December, 2008 - 15:51
Podcast review of "Transformers"

I remember now why I don't listen to these podcasts...
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Clearly you two are not Transformers fans in general. You find the tiniest things to complain about, making absolutely certain to add F-bombs wherever possible to prove that you are better than this. Why'd ya even bother going to the film if you were gonna bash it like this!? (Now try to keep in mind, as I go through all this, I have never seen any Transformers on-screen beyond the all-CGI "Beast Wars" from 96-99.) I'm not saying that this was a great movie, but you guys drag it down way too hard...

  • Why did Bumblebee go to the junkyard(?)? Probably so he could have some- shall I say- privacy when he set off his locater beacon for the other Autobots. Remember, BB is, at that time, an undercover scout trying to avoid being detected by the native population of the planet. Perhaps the junkyard was the closest he could get to isolating himself, and still get back without being noticed. That Sam saw and followed him was just bad luck for BB, that's all. (But you're right, the scene in the station with the smart-ass cop was poorly done, but was needed to show that this was just another case of "alien abduction" as far as everyone else was concerned and to discredit Sam in their eyes.)
  • Why are the Cybertronians shot in close-ups all the time? Well, probably so that when they're in the heat of battle, you don't waste brain power over keeping track of where everything is at the same time that you, say, see Bonecrusher smash into Optimus at near 55mph.
  • Why didn't Optimus change into vehicle mode to escape the Sector 7 guys? Probably because his upright form provides far greater mobillity in a situation like that than a 6-wheeled Peterbilt would. Doesn't make for much of a disguise if they know what he looks like in his disguised form, huh!? Now, yes, running with two humans on his shoulder like that was not portrayed accurately. (Surely such strides atop a 30'-tall robot would bounce them off or tear their shoulders out of their sockets.)
  • Why take the AllSpark Cube to the middle of a city? Yeah, I agree- that was pretty dumb as far as logic goes. But what kind of battle would we have had on a dam if only, like, two of the Cybertronians could fly (Starscream & Megs specifically), and all the others were confined to either the inside or the top of Hoover Dam? Perhaps if they'd moved it into the canyon below? The desert? Hmm!? We already had a desert battle with Scorponok; we didn't need another one!
    Of course, trying to evac the Cube via helicopter is a good idea. But one of the things that this podcast doesn't take into account is the fact that the aerial reinforcements contained- yes- a "robot in disguise" among their ranks! In other words, there were no more F-22 pilots left to tell the guys on the ground (or anywhere else, for that matter) to abort the helicopter because Starscream was taking them out by the handfuls (regardless of how poorly the air battle was choreographed)! Duh!
    Now, the problem with taking the battle into the city, though, reveals a script error as well. Megs, Brawl, and Blackout are dumped in the middle of the Marianas Trench to prevent them from being used again or repaired by other Decepticons. Fair enough; I agree. But the SecDef's monolog at the end states that this entire situation must remain hidden from the public. Hah??? What!?
  • You guys are way too casual regarding the AllSpark and what it can do. But that's the point: we (humans) don't know all that it can do! We only know that it is very powerful- can create life from simple metal and electronic devices, provides these inanimate objects with a Spark (a soul), and can destroy if used incorrectly. This thing is, for lack of a better word, a God, and it created the Cybertronian race! (Did you, like, miss Opitmus' opening monolog when he clearly stated that? You must've come in late to avoid the commercials...) You don't just destroy a God for no dammed reason! Now, I don't know (or remember?) why Optimus wanted to destroy the Cube by putting it in himself, or how it killed Megs. Bad writing? Maybe. But we're not supposed to know all these things- only the Cybertronians know; and whatever that reason is, that is why Megs and the Decepticons rose up against the Autobots to begin with! That's part of the mystery of the AllSpark! Even the Cybertronians themselves may not have known everything about it; if they had known everything, then why fight so hard and long over it?
    As to the AllSpark shrinking down to a 1' cube, again that is the power it has- it goes far beyond our understanding of physics (equally, even the understanding of the Cybertronians), and can change its mass because of this. It just happens to be small enough in its compacted form to- yes- fit under the arm of a human. That's something I'm willing to accept at face value. But what it also excludes (intentionally perhaps) is the existence of Primus- who, in the various shows, is the creator the Cybertronians- and puts the whole creationism argument behind a thin veil so that paranoid, controlling, right-wing religious fanatical groups don't protest the film like they do, say, the Harry Potter books.

I could go on and on and on, and I have my own problems with it (I thought "The Rock" & "Bad Boys(I)" were better), but I don't know how to shrink down this text enough, and I don't want to waste my time on it anymore. My point is, you two pick and nag and moan and bitch the entire time, and the only time you even chuckle is at your own half-hearted attempts to make yourselves look cool in the eyes of your peers. If I had had to do a [podcast] about this film, I would not have wasted one hour and fourteen minutes to do all that! I would have said "Wait until it comes out on DVD, and if you don't like science-fantasy-" which this certainly is- "make sure your all doped-up or wasted when you start it; it might make more sense to you that way." See how hard that was? And look--! I didn't even need a microphone!
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And you want to talk about depressing!? Either it was super-early in the morning when you did that little mini-rant after finishing the movie, or you were not in the right state of mind to begin with when you saw it, but you almost convinced me that the world was coming to an end. Jesus H!
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CollectionDX Staff

EVA_Unit_4A's picture
Posted by EVA_Unit_4A on 24 July, 2007 - 02:41
Hold on a there, you get mad

Hold on a there, you get mad at us for swearing but you are ok with freely accusing us of taking drugs? I want you to apologize right now. I will not have anyone calling Jeremy or me a druggie.

-Andrew.

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 24 July, 2007 - 08:25
Re: Hold on there, you get mad

Fair enough...
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I will apologize for implying that you [two] may have used drugs. That was uncalled for, and I should not have done that. I am sorry.
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To this effect, I have rephrased my earlier comment(s) and/or removed the offending remarks.
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CollectionDX Staff

EVA_Unit_4A's picture
Posted by EVA_Unit_4A on 24 July, 2007 - 12:26
"Clearly you two are not Transformers fans in general."

I think it's funny that one of the people you're accusing of this calls himself Ginrai and runs a site called Masterforce.

Roger's picture
Posted by Roger on 24 July, 2007 - 14:42
Didn't you know? Masterforce

Didn't you know? Masterforce isn't really Transformers because it's about a bunch of stupid humans. MASTAAAFORCE!

-Andrew

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 24 July, 2007 - 16:09
How Did The Japanese React To This Movie?

Hello Jeremy and Andrew,

I'm a 1st time listener, 1st time blogger. Look, I've 95% agree with you guys about the Bay film. I on the other hand liked the effects and a few robot designs(Prime is my favorite design cause he looked like 'Prime', but the face was uncalled for. I hated Starscream b/c he looked like 'Beast Wars' Waspinator pretending to be Starscream. However I did like Blackout, but he lacks battle armor, Megatron? I--I don't want to talk about that......thing) . I thought Peter Cullen still got the touch after 25 years of brilliant voice work, but the rest was totally crappy and BS, and in my personal conscience it was an insult to the Japanese designers/artists like Shoji Kawarmori who made TFs a reality, and it just pains me that these American filmmakers didn't even bother to give their names out at the end credits. Yes sir, I am a fan of the TFs 80s and I still am, but my moral conscience comes first. b/c if you're going to make a typical hollywood movie based on a unique robot toy series w/ a unique Japanese history, at least have the decency to go to Japan and talk to Kawamori-sama and Shinji Aramaki their creative input about the so-called US movie, or at least honor their names the way J. Michael Stracynzski did for Alfred Bester when he made 'Babylon 5'. b/c without those Japanese mecha designers, Bay/Spielberg wouldn't know shit about making transforming robots themselves. Just like if it weren't for Alfred Bester (SF writer father of ESP stories) then there would be no Psi-Corps for B5. JMS knew that, why cant those Hollywood fat cats?

Speaking of Japan, this is my question to you Jeremy and Andrew. You guys seemed to know about what's going on in Japanese society. I have to know this b/c I'm curious. My question is how did the majority of Japanese audiences reacted to the Michael Bay version of 'TFs movie'? Did they loved it just like the Americans did? or had the common sense to find it as much of a disgrace like the U.S. Godzilla movie?

Please be honest with me, cause I have to know. If they could see thru Michael Bay's ego with honor and common sense, then I would know that Japan hasn't been effected by our demoralized, putrid stench of American pop culture.
Please don't get wrong about America, I do love my country, but I hate the media crap that I've been seeing. Can 21st century America get any worse?

Thank you

-Rodimus

Rodimus78's picture
Posted by Rodimus78 on 26 July, 2007 - 00:46
Japan

Hey Rodimus,

Thanks for the feedback. Since Michael Bay's Transformers is not actually using the mecha designs created by Japanese designers but shitty American ones created by Hollywood types, they don't NEED to credit them. I would have been astonished if they did. The Transformers story was totally an American creation (the basics were created by an ad agency and then fleshed out by Jim Shooter, Bob Budiansky and others at Marvel for the comic book, which was kind of refined into the bible for the cartoon at Marvel Studios/Sunbow), so again, no real NEED on their part to credit Japan.

Also, Transformers does not open in Japan until August, so no word on how Japan feels about it yet.

P.S. It drove me nuts that Optimus' mouth was on the end of his chin, but that was a petty complaint so I didn't mention it in the podcast.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 26 July, 2007 - 04:17
What's The Update on Japan

Hey Jermey

I am honored that you've answered my feedback in such a short notice. A hundred thanks to you from the heart. About what you said to the TF Bible origin and so-on, yes...you are 80% correct about the TF playbook totally american, and I apologized for not bringing up Bob Budiansky, Jim Shooter, Larry DiTillo, and Simon Furman. The reason for saying 80% is because most of the concept designs for the US/UK comics and cartoon were developed by Floro Dery, an Asian illustrator from the Phillipines and one hell of an artist.

So the way I see it is that the TF mythos is actually developed by a layer of hardworking writers and artists from East to West. What remained of Diaclone still lives on with Japanese TFs with the Autobot Commander as 'Convoy' instead of Prime. Diaclone and Microman lives on through TFs. I'll always respect these guys from Marvel Comics for developing the Bots/Cons, but I'll always go back to the core that made it possible which is Shoji Kawamori and Shinji Aramaki and anybody else from Japan that I've left out.

Which is why it that it makes me feel guilty that I've bothered to watch this movie. I didn't pay a ticket to go see it, cause I've downloaded it but nevertheless, the guilt is still there because I've felt that I helped Bay and Spielberg(whom I've lost some respect) bushwacked Kawamori, Budiansky, Furman, Stan Bush, Frank Welker, Bob Forward, Larry DiTillo,Pat Lee, Peter Chung, and especially Floro Dery who was instrumental in fleshing out the creative visual force of Transformers: The Movie.

Honestly, I've felt sorry or Kawamori the most because he was the driving force of Diaclone...I mean he created Jetfire for God's sake, the most realistic, unique alien mechanoid ever designed in contemporary history. and Hollywood dismissed him like he didn't exist. If that's the case, those film moguls better stay the hell away from Anime...period!

I've felt like that I've betrayed these guys by watching this hypocritical American flismy-flopper.
Speaking of betrayal, I never forgave Hasbro or whoever was in charge of mishandling the G1 franchise for holding out on us by not distributing the lost 3 seasons of TFs which were shown in Japan after they axed the 4th season ending with 'Rebirth' trilogy. Japan got all the good stuff with God Ginrai, Metalhawk, and Star Saber, and Dia Atlas. While Hasbro's been covering-up this production by give us crappy Powermaster Prime and Action Masters and please don't get started with G2.

I've learned about this whole conspiracy when I was in college back in 1999. I was a fool into believeing that Corporate America like Hasbro has learned this lesson when they finally re-collaborated with Takara (now a part of Tomy) in developing Armada,Energon, and Cybertron, and the G1 reissues, but now with this TF:Animated, and the politically correct bullshit that has banned the G1 Megatron into US soil, my optimism of foreign relations has gone down into the bottomless pit of despair.

If the Japanese audience accepts this American Bay-Shit film this month just like those misguided Americans whom unanimously did....I think I'm gonna bash my head on the flatscreen and get brain seizures.

Jeremy, I must know....is it a box-office eclispe in the land of the 'Rising Sun'? Tell me the true and I promise....I really, really promise that I won't injure my head.

-Rodimus

Rodimus78's picture
Posted by Rodimus78 on 9 August, 2007 - 03:56
#1 in japan

TF opened at #1 in japan.

more proof people will go to see ANYTHING YOU TELL THEM TO. no matter how bad it is.

i bought a bootleg DVD last weekend for $3.

the designs of the robots are probably the *worst* i have ever seen on screen, no scratch that. *worst robot designs ever*. whenever there is more than 1 robot on screen you can't tell what's going on at all. just blur blur blur, jumble of kipple.

what a waste, glad i only spent $3 on this rather than waste anymore of my life at the theatre, and give Bay any more money.

the only good thing about this is:

everyone will forget all about this shitty film by next year, just like Independance Day.

The Big R's picture
Posted by The Big R on 9 August, 2007 - 13:00
Err...

Hey Rodimus, Kawamori was not the driving force on Diaclone by any means, only one of many artists working on the series for the years it was out, not to mention all the talented toy guys who actually made the designs workable toys. Also, Floro Dery was working with a talented team of assistants as well, and as far as I know, this was all taking place in LA in the 80's, so I'm guessing those guys were Americans too, not to mention the Japanese animators who were also involved in redesigning some of the season 1 characters. Dery and his team of assistants did do all the design work for the original movie, though, but none of this design work is in the Michael Bay movie.

There's no conspiracy of Hasbro keeping better stuff from American shores. In the cases of Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory, they came AFTER America. The show was cancelled here because it lost popularity, not because Hasbro wanted to hide later seasons. Transformers was still popular in Japan so they made new stuff. The Headmasters and Powermaster lines were available in the US FIRST and were modified by Takara for the Japanese market, which is why you have toys like God Ginrai and Doubleclouder being superior to Powermaster Optimus Prime and Doubledealer. They were improved. This is entirely due to market conditions is not some "omg evil american corporation!" conspiracy.

Action Masters, like Micromasters, was an attempt to cash in newer toy lines that were popular in the US at the time to dubious success. When your gimmick (transforming) is no longer hot shit, toy companies frequently attempt to copy what is trendy at the time, and that almost never works.

G2 was mostly a matter of keeping their trademarks up to date and trying to make a few extra dollars as cheaply as possible, hence the recycled cartoon, recycled toys (both from the original American TF line, and the European/Japanese TF lines that kept going while the US one was cancelled), and you can certainly criticize it for being lazy, but obviously they felt it was not worth expending huge amounts of money on. I don't know why you are so up in arms about this considering that since Beast Wars, over ten years now, TF has been enduringly popular in the US and has had new toys and new cartoons every year for ten years. What more do you want?

Anyway, I am still not surprised the movie did not credit any of the Japanese designers or American writers of previous material, because they do not LEGALLY or for purposes of writer's guild abitration NEED to. The movie does NOT use the original designs at all, clearly, and only vaugely resembles the old story. Futhermore, Hasbro has always retained all rights and thus the movie is not REQUIRED to credit anyone except Hasbro.

Save your anger for Michael Bay's movie just being a pisspoor movie, because that is the real issue, not that it didn't credit people who weren't involved. If I were someone like Bob Budianksy or Simon Furman, I would be glad my name wasn't on this piece of crap.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 9 August, 2007 - 13:44
Let's see if it holds there...

Thanks for the update, Big R. Let's see how long it STAYS at the top of the box office charts...

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 9 August, 2007 - 13:46
Well... I was writing that

Well... I was writing that as I was listening, on the go. Perhaps I should have double-checked before I posted it.
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But the other reason is that: I am a fan of transforming robots, but I am not a Transformers fan per se. So, I was trying to say that these two may be too close to what has been established before to appreciate what has been done here. (To prove my point, I'll ask what is Masterforce anyways?)
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But I can also understand their frustrations- [when] the Evangelion live-action movie is [finally] made, I want it to be as accurate with the originating anime as possible. If it isn't, be certain that I, too, would protest quite loudly. But, on the other hand, if the film is well made, perhaps I would not bash it quite as harshly as these two are "Transformers".
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CollectionDX Staff

EVA_Unit_4A's picture
Posted by EVA_Unit_4A on 24 July, 2007 - 17:32
Oh, Eva.

Eva: So first you try to discredit our review by suggesting that we are not Transformers fans and therefore do not "get" the subculture and are incapable of appreciating the movie, and then you try to discredit our review by saying we are biased because we are fans? Make up your mind.


I thought we did an admirable job of shelving our nostalgia and rose tinted glasses and viewing both Michael Bay's Transformers movie and the 80's cartoon movie on their own merits. Just because it is a movie about something we like does not give it a free pass.


We "bashed" Transformers because it is a poor movie created by an incompetent director whose shoddy movies consistently make big money, to my consternation. His body of work shows him for the hack he is, and it's not my fault he made a bad movie. I do not care about "accuracy" to what came before, I just wanted a decent movie, which I did not get.


Did you hear us complain that the Allspark was previously described in Beast Wars as a mystical place where Transformers go when they die, like heaven or something, and not a magic size-changing box that turns soda machines into robots? Did you hear us complain that that Optimus didn't have a trailer? Did you hear us complain that Frenzy turned into a stereo, or that Soundwave wasn't in it, or that Jetfire wasn't in it?

No. We complained that it had a meandering, incoherent script, it was way too long, the music sucked, there were ton of extraneous characters and subplots, and the good effects were impossible to see because of the drunken cameraman.


The problem is not that it's a bad Transformers movie, the problem is that it's just a bad movie period. It's a loud, stupid, incoherent movie obsessed with action scenes, but you can't even tell what is happening in those action scenes. It's a big failure, no matter how much money it makes.


P.S. Transformer: Super God Masterforce is the second Japan-only Transformers anime series. While the previous series, Headmasters, largely emulated the style of season 3 of the American Transformers cartoon, Masterforce abandoned that in favor of pairing Transformers (that disguise themselves as humans) with humans (that control Transformer bodies through various means). It is a very anime concept.


-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 26 July, 2007 - 04:27
My nostalgia for

My nostalgia for Transformers dried up in high school. Haha. Also, every time I try to get back into Transformers the franchise convinces me to spend my money elsewhere. Especially the comics, where somehow stories about robots that turn into vehicles has been saddled with a retarded "mysticism" and "lol death god." The Spotlight comics are especially bad. I don't want to spend three bucks just to read ULTRA MAGNUS THE HARDBOILED COP who also turns into a car carrier. Seriously the next Spotlight is going to be about Grimlock and how it's hard for him to be a single parent in today's society.
-Andrew

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 27 July, 2007 - 12:55
Hey, don't knock that Ultra

Hey, don't knock that Ultra Magnus book too much - our banner artist, Robby Musso, did the art for that book!

Josh

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CollectionDX Admin

JoshB's picture
Posted by JoshB on 27 July, 2007 - 20:18
Disparity

Unfortunately it is not uncommon for comic books to have a disparity between quality of writing and quality of art. Often you will find a well-written story with poor art or a poorly written story with amazing art. For some reason it seems difficult to find both in the same book.

-Jeremy

Destroy All Podcasts DX's picture
Posted by Destroy All Pod... on 28 July, 2007 - 04:21
Oh, that's right...

Oh, that's right... that's where we got Powermaster Optimus Prime (aka God Ginrai) from! Now I remember. I don't know much, but I remember that now!
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CollectionDX Staff

EVA_Unit_4A's picture
Posted by EVA_Unit_4A on 27 July, 2007 - 15:27
My one cent

I agree with most of your points fellows, but yeah this was disappointing .... I'm more of a fan of Beast Wars, the more serious parts anyway (don't hate me). But yeah the stupidity of the movie is... mind numbing. D*mn and they killed Jazz - the black Autobot.. even though some would argue that robots have no skin color.

But I liked most of the Movie line toys,

But I liked most of the IDW Furman comics, not all the spotlights are gold... but they are pretty good but yeah Furman did drop the ball on his re-imagining.

Still the only reason I liked some of the characters is because of the Transformers.wikia profiles.

Oh yeah Micheal Bay is the American Uwe Bol ?

"From behind, From the back?!" Jeremiah - Code Geass
? Quite deficiency ?

StormBringer_Jetfire's picture
Posted by StormBringer_Jetfire on 26 December, 2008 - 04:27
Not even close buddy

"Oh yeah Micheal Bay is the American Uwe Bol ?"

The American Uwe Bol? Buddy....Uwe Bol doesn't even come close to this Hollywood sleaze. From grim perspective I can only see Michael Bay as the 'Rob Liefield of American Cinema'.

That pretty much sums it all up.

Good Lord, it's been over a year since I've discovered this website. The year where I post my 1st blog comment. The year I defected from the TF community in disgust only to hear a renegade podcast hosted by a pair of rag-tag freedom fighters w/ common sense (who call themselves 'jerks' for some odd reason) that continues to make an effort in trashing the evil social forces of a totalitarian superpower while smiting the nerves of corrupt fanboys that knows no better.

-R78

Rodimus78's picture
Posted by Rodimus78 on 19 January, 2009 - 07:20