I remember getting this from you. I also vividly remember the pain of finding out that you had sold all your other valkyries and alpha fighters to the comic store for next to nothing. "WHy didn't you ask me?" I cried....
I got the consolation prize, your fire damaged valkyrie. It did sort of jump-start the collecting though, and I kept it all these years. I even cleaned it at one point...
But I am glad it found its way home - thanks for the loaner!
Thank you, that means a lot. I'm glad you enjoy the site and what we do. It's what makes it worth it.
___________________
CollectionDX Writer
www.atomsantics.com
Yeah, this toy took me completely by surprise. Nice tight joints (none of which click) except for the ankles & waist, complex yet easy-to-change transformation, great aesthetics in both modes... Ya can't go wrong with him! Up against ClassicsOptimus Prime/Ultra Magnus (I'll cover the latter for CDX in a few weeks, I hope) and Bumblebee, it's just in that top 5 spot like you said.
Now I need to catch-up and find Jetfire...!
------------------------------
CollectionDX Staff
Been a big fan of your website. This is truly a touching story. Many Thanks for sharing. Truly, a Battle Damaged toy that has a meaning and a story to tell.
I wasn't expecting much when I first saw this figure. But when I finally got my hands on it I fell in love. This is one of the best figures of the Classics line (Top 3), one of the best Transformers in recent memory, and arguably the best Deluxe-sized or smaller Transformer, period. I can't recommend Mirage enough. If you see him, buy him!
Ishtar is moe. It doesn't matter if Hibiki is a creepy guy with a father fetish or not, she's still the useless heroine that needs someone to protect her. Mikimoto moe is still moe.
My Brother and I back in the 90's had 4 of the 5 figures shown on the box.
We also got ours at kaybee for I think something like $3.99 (that was a long time ago and I really can't remember but We got all four on the same day so I think they had to be a good deal for my parents to get all four).
I remember being amazed at these toys, we lost all the parts and accesories but the figures stood the test of time and were pretty durable. I don't know how we lost them or what happened to them but I loved these toys and it was because of these figures that I started to really look for better made and articulated toys.
Reminds me of an upgraded Bohrok from Bionicle- changes into a ball, has a rubber band-powered feature, and includes a mask that can be attached/removed- except bigger and more articulate.
------------------------------
CollectionDX Staff
Ishtar is definitely super naive, possibly borderline retarded. I do not disagree at all. However, I think Hibiki is a far, far cry from the stable father figure that can rescue a useless, retarded moe girl in need. He's reckless and stupid (just see his behavior aboard the Marduk ships) and a little rabble rousing troublemaker. Remember all the problems he made for UN Spacy? Tabloid journalist thrill-seeker is a pretty far cry from moe daddy. Hell, he is also pretty far removed from the stupid harem anime main character of "useless Japanese guy with no skills or talent".
As for the name Marduk, well, Marduk was a god that, just like Ishtar, appears in various religions over the years, sucking up the positions and attributes of other gods until finally finding his way to top of Babylon's pantheon. But I think what is important to Macross II is that the gods had easy, fun lives at the expense of humans having crappy, hard lives. Humans basically slaved away for Marduk and his crew, kind of like how the Zentradi slaved away for the Marduk in Macross II.
Also keep in mind that Ishtar is basically the most popular fertility goddess in recorded history, appearing in many religions. To quote Guirand in New Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology by way of wikipedia, "Ishtar was above all associated with sexuality: her cult involved sacred prostitution; her holy city Erech was called the 'town of the sacred courtesans'; she herself as the 'courtesan of the gods'; and she had many lovers."
While I'm at it, Feff's mecha is called the Gilgamesh and in the Epic of Gilgamesh, Ishtar hits on Gilgamesh, but he rejects her, pointing out all the terrible things her former lovers have had to go through. "The fickle goddess treated her passing lovers cruelly, and the unhappy wretches usually paid dearly for the favours heaped on them." Considering the jilted Ishtar tries to kill Gilgamesh, it seems like yet again Japan did not properly understand the non-Japanese mythology they were making reference to. It's weird how Feff/Gilgamesh ends up with Isthar (hell, betrays Ingues and shoots his advisor for her), completely confusing the allusion.
I figured talking about this during the podcast would slow it down and be kind of boring so I didn't go into it.
I agree with Andrew about the Minmay Attack, it was about conversion and not destruction.
Is Flight of Dragons a cartoon movie or what?
Oh yeah, I also made a mistake, the Viz sequel comic is called Macross II: The Micron Conspiracy. Micron Disorder was the name of one of the episodes of Macross II.
Jeremy: Well, I don't have any strong opinions about Orguss 02, either way. I'm just glad to know you're planning to talk about the original series eventually.
As for the FoD movie I mentioned...maybe you didn't see it, and it's probably cheesy enough by modern standards (haven't had the chance to directly look back), but I think it was still better than the average cartoon at the time.
The Macross and the underwater city come from the Protoculture. Even DYRL makes it pretty explicit that the city was a Protoculture city. And like we said in some way the Marduk fit the concept of the Supervision Army as mentioned in the TV series as a race that controlled Zentradi in order to fight rogue Zentradi. The Protodelvin's Varuta forces are basically the same thing too.
And the human aligned Zentradi in Macross 2 are pretty clear about the Minmay defense. That one Zentradi on the random TV saw it as CULTURE BANZAI! and also a way to "expose our brothers to culture!" More than likely the main thrust of the Minmay Defense is to pacify attacking Zentradi through CULTURE SHOCK rather than utterly destroying them. The fact that the UN Spacy in Macross 2 seemed unprepared for an enemy that would keep fighting after the Minmay defense seems to indicate an overall strategy of placate and capture.
Also I thought Ishtar was really moe, but Jeremy is very moe ignorant and wouldn't have any of that in his Macross 2 podcast =)
Remember how I said that most modern series had the problem that they were 6 episodes of content stretched out to 26 episodes of show?
I think that Macross 2 kind of had the opposite problem; that its story would have worked better as the foundation for a 26-episode TV series. Obviously they didn't have the budget for that--it wasn't the time of the TV series, after all--but they had a definitely intriguing foundation.
You've got the comparisons of the Human-Zentradei relationship versus the Marduk-Zentradri relationship. Both are based on introducing the Zentradei to music and emotion; but the humans use it to befriend, while the Marduk use it to enslave and manipulate.
You've got the significance of the name "Marduk". Now, obviously it was just chosen because it sounded cool; but why not go further with that? Where did the SDF Macross and that ancient underwater city come from? Maybe the Marduk were an ancient culture, and Earth was just a lost colony; natural disasters wiped out their civilization and their history became mythology.
Obviously the love-triangle thing could use some expansion. But there is quite a bit of "moe" to Hibiki's relationship with Ishtar. In a way, she's the platonic ideal of a moe character; she's weak and vulnerable and innocent, and needs a Strong Father Figure. And in this case the physical aspects are okay, because she's...uh, mature. No icky involved! Get in there, man, she's fine! And you could expand on that; maybe Hibiki has had trouble finding a girlfriend, because none of the women he knows really meets the perfect girlfriend he's built in his head. And now here comes Ishtar, ready and waiting to be molded into the form he wants! But then he comes to realize how empty that relationship is; there's nothing in her that he didn't put there. That's why he ends up with Sylvie. While she isn't completely devoted to him, she's an independent human, and can fulfill him in ways that the empty-vessel Ishtar cannot.
And you have a subplot with the human-aligned Zentradei. How do they feel about the repeated Minmay Attacks against their fellow beings? The standard human space-battle tactic is "put the enemy into a hypnotic trance and then kill ALL OF THEM." Doesn't really seem fair, does it?
Anyway. I'd say that if you want to look at pretty pictures of mecha, you'd do better just to buy the Macross 2 artbook; or, alternatively, get the Palladium RPG books (which do the usual Palladium stunt where they copy the Big West line art, ink it heavily, and then put an American artist's name on it. At least they have the pictures.)
I think we were having trouble wrapping it up because usually you can end on a sum up, "THIS IS COMPLETE GARBAGE I WANT MY TWO HOURS BACK" or you can go, "YEAH! THAT WAS AWESOME!" But with this you are like... well... uh...
Appreciate the feedback!
I'm glad you felt the nostalgia I did with the Darkwing podcast, it was a really weird, wistful summer day. I have no idea what Flight of the Dragons is. I don't remember that at all?
We've been planning Orguss. I have the entire series on HK bootreg DVD in addition to several US Renditions tapes from back in the day, but it's coming out here soon (although it keeps getting delayed) and so I've been waiting for that. Trying to time it and all, plus I wanted to be able to comment on the quality of Imaginasian's release. Believe me, if it's available in some form of English and it's Ishiguro Noboru, it's on my list to review.
As for Orguss 02, it has veeeeery little to do with the original Orguss, but I actually kind of like it. It's a weird, funky little OVA.
-Jeremy
Note: Please do not edit my posts for me. I am perfectly capable of doing it myself. A simple message asking me to change something would be great.
Yes, these were great. Got mine at a Kay-Bee clearance as well. I had Blazord, who looked amazing. Sadly, I think I got rid of mine in the great toy-culling of 98, i.e. getting married and moving out of the folks house. Sad news, but cool to see someone else know these too.
Hmmmm. Aoshima really has me watching what they are doing between this and the Mospeda stuff. I really need extra ca$h. Ugh. :P EDIT: just saw the bit about it being a model. Bummer.
Hi guys, new listener here. Found DAPDX through a sig link on a BBS somewhere.
Now, "intense" definitely describes this podcast. Most of the time it's Jeremy ranting about this or that but hey, it's usually fun or interesting, one way or another, so that's just fine by me. Unlike some other podcasts, the swearing actually makes sense when it happens (F*CK MAMORU OSHII).
The last few podcasts have been pretty good and several of the earlier ones too. Guess I'll be renting, buying or otherwise watching a few classic shows soon enough, including Yamato.
The ST 04 podcast made me both nostalgic and ashamed of the early 90's and my choice of cartoons. Liked what little I saw of Darkwing Duck, but ended up watching a lot more Ducktales and random Disney Channel crap, though the movie "The Flight of Dragons" stood out as something particularly cool, at least at the time.
As for Macross 2...never seen this one before, but I guess it's nothing special either (underdeveloped love triangles and retarded aliens FTW...or not). The show seemed to drag a bit towards the end, but overall it was cool enough, even Andrew's little reading.
Finally, I was wondering if you're planning to review, say, Orguss at some point in the future. Haven't watched all of it but seems like a pretty good 80's anime that most people tend to overlook, though apparently it's being re-released in the U.S. these days. Plus hey, it's got Haruhiko Mikimoto.
Then again, Orguss 02 might be more useful for mockery purposes, but I'll leave the decision up to you guys.
Glad to see your SDCC07 experience post wrapped up Sanjeev. The read was a nice dove-tail to the stories you told me upon getting back to Boston. If an SDCC08 trip is on tap for next year I hope to be a part of it.
Great coverage of SDCC07 Sanjeev! As always a true word smith. You made me feel like I was there. You didn't tell me you got a tour of ILM. I am truly jealous.
I remember getting this from you. I also vividly remember the pain of finding out that you had sold all your other valkyries and alpha fighters to the comic store for next to nothing. "WHy didn't you ask me?" I cried....
I got the consolation prize, your fire damaged valkyrie. It did sort of jump-start the collecting though, and I kept it all these years. I even cleaned it at one point...
But I am glad it found its way home - thanks for the loaner!
------------------------------
CollectionDX Admin
Thank you, that means a lot. I'm glad you enjoy the site and what we do. It's what makes it worth it.
___________________
CollectionDX Writer
www.atomsantics.com
Yeah, this toy took me completely by surprise. Nice tight joints (none of which click) except for the ankles & waist, complex yet easy-to-change transformation, great aesthetics in both modes... Ya can't go wrong with him! Up against Classics Optimus Prime/Ultra Magnus (I'll cover the latter for CDX in a few weeks, I hope) and Bumblebee, it's just in that top 5 spot like you said.
Now I need to catch-up and find Jetfire...!
------------------------------
CollectionDX Staff
Been a big fan of your website. This is truly a touching story. Many Thanks for sharing. Truly, a Battle Damaged toy that has a meaning and a story to tell.
I wasn't expecting much when I first saw this figure. But when I finally got my hands on it I fell in love. This is one of the best figures of the Classics line (Top 3), one of the best Transformers in recent memory, and arguably the best Deluxe-sized or smaller Transformer, period. I can't recommend Mirage enough. If you see him, buy him!
Heavyarms
thatsjustprime.blogspot.com
addictedtoplastic.blogspot.com
Ishtar is moe. It doesn't matter if Hibiki is a creepy guy with a father fetish or not, she's still the useless heroine that needs someone to protect her. Mikimoto moe is still moe.
-Andrew
...I hate you for making me want these!
You seriously need to stop with these "real toy" reviews! ;)
--
Sanjeev
My Brother and I back in the 90's had 4 of the 5 figures shown on the box.
We also got ours at kaybee for I think something like $3.99 (that was a long time ago and I really can't remember but We got all four on the same day so I think they had to be a good deal for my parents to get all four).
I remember being amazed at these toys, we lost all the parts and accesories but the figures stood the test of time and were pretty durable. I don't know how we lost them or what happened to them but I loved these toys and it was because of these figures that I started to really look for better made and articulated toys.
Reminds me of an upgraded Bohrok from Bionicle- changes into a ball, has a rubber band-powered feature, and includes a mask that can be attached/removed- except bigger and more articulate.
------------------------------
CollectionDX Staff
>Is Flight of Dragons a cartoon movie or what?
Yes, it's a cartoon movie.
Btw, it's actually on Youtube: http://tinyurl.com/394qos
Ishtar is definitely super naive, possibly borderline retarded. I do not disagree at all. However, I think Hibiki is a far, far cry from the stable father figure that can rescue a useless, retarded moe girl in need. He's reckless and stupid (just see his behavior aboard the Marduk ships) and a little rabble rousing troublemaker. Remember all the problems he made for UN Spacy? Tabloid journalist thrill-seeker is a pretty far cry from moe daddy. Hell, he is also pretty far removed from the stupid harem anime main character of "useless Japanese guy with no skills or talent".
As for the name Marduk, well, Marduk was a god that, just like Ishtar, appears in various religions over the years, sucking up the positions and attributes of other gods until finally finding his way to top of Babylon's pantheon. But I think what is important to Macross II is that the gods had easy, fun lives at the expense of humans having crappy, hard lives. Humans basically slaved away for Marduk and his crew, kind of like how the Zentradi slaved away for the Marduk in Macross II.
Also keep in mind that Ishtar is basically the most popular fertility goddess in recorded history, appearing in many religions. To quote Guirand in New Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology by way of wikipedia, "Ishtar was above all associated with sexuality: her cult involved sacred prostitution; her holy city Erech was called the 'town of the sacred courtesans'; she herself as the 'courtesan of the gods'; and she had many lovers."
While I'm at it, Feff's mecha is called the Gilgamesh and in the Epic of Gilgamesh, Ishtar hits on Gilgamesh, but he rejects her, pointing out all the terrible things her former lovers have had to go through. "The fickle goddess treated her passing lovers cruelly, and the unhappy wretches usually paid dearly for the favours heaped on them." Considering the jilted Ishtar tries to kill Gilgamesh, it seems like yet again Japan did not properly understand the non-Japanese mythology they were making reference to. It's weird how Feff/Gilgamesh ends up with Isthar (hell, betrays Ingues and shoots his advisor for her), completely confusing the allusion.
I figured talking about this during the podcast would slow it down and be kind of boring so I didn't go into it.
I agree with Andrew about the Minmay Attack, it was about conversion and not destruction.
Is Flight of Dragons a cartoon movie or what?
Oh yeah, I also made a mistake, the Viz sequel comic is called Macross II: The Micron Conspiracy. Micron Disorder was the name of one of the episodes of Macross II.
-Jeremy
Hmmm. This could look good next to Voltron (Or an 12 inch tall Ultraman if I had one. :))
___________________
CollectionDX Writer
www.atomsantics.com
Jeremy: Well, I don't have any strong opinions about Orguss 02, either way. I'm just glad to know you're planning to talk about the original series eventually.
As for the FoD movie I mentioned...maybe you didn't see it, and it's probably cheesy enough by modern standards (haven't had the chance to directly look back), but I think it was still better than the average cartoon at the time.
-wielder
The Macross and the underwater city come from the Protoculture. Even DYRL makes it pretty explicit that the city was a Protoculture city. And like we said in some way the Marduk fit the concept of the Supervision Army as mentioned in the TV series as a race that controlled Zentradi in order to fight rogue Zentradi. The Protodelvin's Varuta forces are basically the same thing too.
And the human aligned Zentradi in Macross 2 are pretty clear about the Minmay defense. That one Zentradi on the random TV saw it as CULTURE BANZAI! and also a way to "expose our brothers to culture!" More than likely the main thrust of the Minmay Defense is to pacify attacking Zentradi through CULTURE SHOCK rather than utterly destroying them. The fact that the UN Spacy in Macross 2 seemed unprepared for an enemy that would keep fighting after the Minmay defense seems to indicate an overall strategy of placate and capture.
Also I thought Ishtar was really moe, but Jeremy is very moe ignorant and wouldn't have any of that in his Macross 2 podcast =)
-Andrew
Remember how I said that most modern series had the problem that they were 6 episodes of content stretched out to 26 episodes of show?
I think that Macross 2 kind of had the opposite problem; that its story would have worked better as the foundation for a 26-episode TV series. Obviously they didn't have the budget for that--it wasn't the time of the TV series, after all--but they had a definitely intriguing foundation.
You've got the comparisons of the Human-Zentradei relationship versus the Marduk-Zentradri relationship. Both are based on introducing the Zentradei to music and emotion; but the humans use it to befriend, while the Marduk use it to enslave and manipulate.
You've got the significance of the name "Marduk". Now, obviously it was just chosen because it sounded cool; but why not go further with that? Where did the SDF Macross and that ancient underwater city come from? Maybe the Marduk were an ancient culture, and Earth was just a lost colony; natural disasters wiped out their civilization and their history became mythology.
Obviously the love-triangle thing could use some expansion. But there is quite a bit of "moe" to Hibiki's relationship with Ishtar. In a way, she's the platonic ideal of a moe character; she's weak and vulnerable and innocent, and needs a Strong Father Figure. And in this case the physical aspects are okay, because she's...uh, mature. No icky involved! Get in there, man, she's fine! And you could expand on that; maybe Hibiki has had trouble finding a girlfriend, because none of the women he knows really meets the perfect girlfriend he's built in his head. And now here comes Ishtar, ready and waiting to be molded into the form he wants! But then he comes to realize how empty that relationship is; there's nothing in her that he didn't put there. That's why he ends up with Sylvie. While she isn't completely devoted to him, she's an independent human, and can fulfill him in ways that the empty-vessel Ishtar cannot.
And you have a subplot with the human-aligned Zentradei. How do they feel about the repeated Minmay Attacks against their fellow beings? The standard human space-battle tactic is "put the enemy into a hypnotic trance and then kill ALL OF THEM." Doesn't really seem fair, does it?
Anyway. I'd say that if you want to look at pretty pictures of mecha, you'd do better just to buy the Macross 2 artbook; or, alternatively, get the Palladium RPG books (which do the usual Palladium stunt where they copy the Big West line art, ink it heavily, and then put an American artist's name on it. At least they have the pictures.)
I think we were having trouble wrapping it up because usually you can end on a sum up, "THIS IS COMPLETE GARBAGE I WANT MY TWO HOURS BACK" or you can go, "YEAH! THAT WAS AWESOME!" But with this you are like... well... uh...
Appreciate the feedback!
I'm glad you felt the nostalgia I did with the Darkwing podcast, it was a really weird, wistful summer day. I have no idea what Flight of the Dragons is. I don't remember that at all?
We've been planning Orguss. I have the entire series on HK bootreg DVD in addition to several US Renditions tapes from back in the day, but it's coming out here soon (although it keeps getting delayed) and so I've been waiting for that. Trying to time it and all, plus I wanted to be able to comment on the quality of Imaginasian's release. Believe me, if it's available in some form of English and it's Ishiguro Noboru, it's on my list to review.
As for Orguss 02, it has veeeeery little to do with the original Orguss, but I actually kind of like it. It's a weird, funky little OVA.
-Jeremy
Note: Please do not edit my posts for me. I am perfectly capable of doing it myself. A simple message asking me to change something would be great.
Yes, these were great. Got mine at a Kay-Bee clearance as well. I had Blazord, who looked amazing. Sadly, I think I got rid of mine in the great toy-culling of 98, i.e. getting married and moving out of the folks house. Sad news, but cool to see someone else know these too.
-----
"Hey, uh...let's volt in."
I can't quite make out the details of the paint job! ;)
--
Sanjeev
All toys are always better if their fists shoot out.
Hmmmm. Aoshima really has me watching what they are doing between this and the Mospeda stuff. I really need extra ca$h. Ugh. :P EDIT: just saw the bit about it being a model. Bummer.
___________________
CollectionDX Writer
www.atomsantics.com
Hi guys, new listener here. Found DAPDX through a sig link on a BBS somewhere.
Now, "intense" definitely describes this podcast. Most of the time it's Jeremy ranting about this or that but hey, it's usually fun or interesting, one way or another, so that's just fine by me. Unlike some other podcasts, the swearing actually makes sense when it happens (F*CK MAMORU OSHII).
The last few podcasts have been pretty good and several of the earlier ones too. Guess I'll be renting, buying or otherwise watching a few classic shows soon enough, including Yamato.
The ST 04 podcast made me both nostalgic and ashamed of the early 90's and my choice of cartoons. Liked what little I saw of Darkwing Duck, but ended up watching a lot more Ducktales and random Disney Channel crap, though the movie "The Flight of Dragons" stood out as something particularly cool, at least at the time.
As for Macross 2...never seen this one before, but I guess it's nothing special either (underdeveloped love triangles and retarded aliens FTW...or not). The show seemed to drag a bit towards the end, but overall it was cool enough, even Andrew's little reading.
Finally, I was wondering if you're planning to review, say, Orguss at some point in the future. Haven't watched all of it but seems like a pretty good 80's anime that most people tend to overlook, though apparently it's being re-released in the U.S. these days. Plus hey, it's got Haruhiko Mikimoto.
Then again, Orguss 02 might be more useful for mockery purposes, but I'll leave the decision up to you guys.
Cya.
-wielder
Glad to see your SDCC07 experience post wrapped up Sanjeev. The read was a nice dove-tail to the stories you told me upon getting back to Boston. If an SDCC08 trip is on tap for next year I hope to be a part of it.
I thought we mentioned that they killed the entire human race and blew up earth?
-Jeremy
Great coverage of SDCC07 Sanjeev! As always a true word smith. You made me feel like I was there. You didn't tell me you got a tour of ILM. I am truly jealous.
___________________
CollectionDX Writer
www.atomsantics.com
There's a scene in the movie where they explain that every human and buff clan-person (except for the few in the final battle) have all been killed.
They died because the Ide bombarded every inhabited planet with huge meteors.
The Ide is supposedly the good guy, by-the-way.