Hosts: Jeremy, Zuey
This is about inappropriate behavior at a hospital during visiting hours, climactic showdowns, and lots of crying.
Click [HERE] to trip out.
Video after the cut.
I was hoping to see how far you'll go with this but I guess I'll have to wait until next week for the rest. In the meantime....
I'm really enjoying this series of Evangelion podcasts. Zuey is indeed more reflective and introspective at 2AM.
"End of Evangelion" was the first fansub I ever watched, and I still really like it. A shame the R1 DVD has such poor video quality on it...
I've never been aware of Evangelion without EoE existing, so I'm never sure if I think of it as the "antidote" to the TV series ending, which I *also* thought was really compelling.
I've also seen this movie enough times that I'm only bothered "intellectually" by Shinji allowing himself to be dragged around like a sack of potatoes. It just doesn't make me angry, because it makes perfect sense for the character at the point he'd become: being forced to kill this embodiment of ideal, perfect love (whatever kind of love is up to you), in a world where everyone had abandoned him. Harsh.
Maybe it's not entertaining to watch, but I just like storytelling that lets a protagonist be anything, instead of setting up this boundary that he can't collapse too hard 'cause he's the protagonist and we have to make sure the audience like him.
It doesn't mean Shinji's not horrible for wanking over Asuka and leaving her to die, but he's still a great character.
Asuka I don't think of the "anti-Shinji" because her ego and her desire for fighting aren't "heroic" but a way to hide from herself. She's just as weak and damaged as he is, only expresses it differently, and it doesn't change who she is.
EoE was probably angling for this, because like Shinji, Asuka only gets up and moves after making contact with her mother. There's also that short hallucination of Asuka and Shinji: "Enough already! God, you're annoying!" "Because I'm just like you?"
Misato's kiss and promise to Shinji were pretty perverse: not just because she's dying and got her blood in his mouth, but because, yes, she's about twice his age and explicitly wanted to be a mother figure to Shinji. Creepy stuff.
Your discussion covered a lot of the fan theories about EoE that I've heard before....except for the idea that Kaworu's human form was cloned from Yui Ikari. That's a new one, and it wouldn't be surprising if that were true, since EVA loves blurring the lines of relationships (the way Gendo touches Rei, too.)
There are so many great, monstrous visuals in this thing, too. The Mass-Production Evangelion units are pretty disturbing, and it only gets worse from there.
Anyway, looking forward to the next bit.
The series ended on such a 'wtf" and the movie concluded it with the whole 'oh my god, this is what's happening outside of Shinji's head' and it was so dark and unexpected. From the hospital scene to the end of everything.
I thought the film was good, but it shocked me for a while. I was a fan of the Evangelion Manga by Sadamoto and I finally had a chance to read his conclusion. It's somewhat on even terms with the film but there are some changes:
Shinji doesn't have a moment to himself with Asuka; instead she has a split second psychotic episode and lashes out at him before passing out. (no implied shinji-no-pants time)
Misato's death is more of a pyrrhic suicide, She gets Shinji to the elevator and when the UN forces approach, pops the pin on the grenade herself and smiles at them.
Shinji's less emo and more emotionally drained but desperate to fight.
Asuka survives the battle with the Eva series and Shinji arrives in Unit 1 to save her.
The Third Impact still happens, but Shinji makes another choice to 'return.' and instead of returning to an empty world, human life begins anew for the better. Basically elements of Shinji's perfect world he envisioned from the television series conclusion but with some changes to show that this is a progressed world and not a reboot. There's no sign of how long it has been except that the fossils of the Eva series are still standing.
It ends with Shinji talking to his aunt and uncle on a cellphone that looks remarkably like an i-phone (after all, Sadamoto finally illustrated this within the past 10 years). As he gets off a train, he helps a certain redhead girl who's stuck in a crowd and they have a moment of "Don't I know you?" before Shinji walks down the road with Misato's cross hanging from his pocket.
I think what Sadamoto was trying to do was keep the impact of the End of Evangelion but less bleak and uncertain like the film was.
It sounds like a better film already from the way Sadamoto wrote this.
...parts of that summary sound pretty bland to me. EoE was horrific, but there was an art to its horrific nature, to the way it showed characters at their lowest.
Having Misato go out like a badass, and Shinji managing to save Asuka instead of holding back and letting her die, just sounds too typical. It doesn't push boundaries, but is confined by the idea of what cool main characters "should" do.
A "rebooted" world would have been a decent conclusion to EoE, however, as long as the implied message wasn't, "Make one good decision and it's all YAY! forever and ever."
Yeah I suppose I stuck more with Sadamoto's idea of a conclusion than I would with Anno's.
"The Third Impact still happens, but Shinji makes another choice to 'return.' and instead of returning to an empty world, human life begins anew for the better. Basically elements of Shinji's perfect world he envisioned from the television series conclusion but with some changes to show that this is a progressed world and not a reboot. There's no sign of how long it has been except that the fossils of the Eva series are still standing.
I think what Sadamoto was trying to do was keep the impact of the End of Evangelion but less bleak and uncertain like the film was."
And from the sound of it (as I never read the manga), that sounds a hell lot better to me personally. At least an ending I could get behind if I were made God and simply erased the whole mess and started it at a point where knowledge of this event never occurred and nobody remembers any of it (or themselves given the way it happens, hopefully this time Shinji's given a decent outlook on life too).