Better late than never, the second part of our etiquette discussion, featuing Nekrodave, VF5SS, Prometheum5 and JoshB.
I picked up that DX Kabutack you sold (I think) last year on ebay. I had the orange hippo dude and the superchange 5 purple stingray guy already, and I was thrilled to see the DX Kabutack available.
He's sitting here happy on my shelf.
I picked it up because not only do I dig awesomely goofy diecast robots, but it was also being sold by a member of the CDX community and was also featured in a review.
Apparently I was harmed during the making of this video.
is it c10?
Andrew, I love the Hat, you are the William Burroughs of toys ;-)
This is a great episode. It is one close to my heart. I think Josh B, and NekroDave know I tend to send out links to a select group of friends when I see auction that more than one of us might be interested in. I think it all depends on the level of friendship, but for me, the people are more valuable than getting a key toy. For the most part, there will always be another toy coming up.
So it is just a matter of good manners to let people know you are going to bid on something. If more then one person is interested, you decide what your max bid is, and if one person is going to go higher, generally we defer to that person. Also telling others lets them know not to bid the toy up, so you are just competing against people outside your circle. Calling "dibs" is not something that happens easily. It is an organic process that evolves over a period of time, when you get to know your fellow collectors tastes and want list. I know for myself, I am always looking online for Jumbos for Dave, especially when it is a knockoff ( though I doubt I would ever find something he has not known about) or Raideen for Josh, and the list goes on. I find satisfaction in helping friends, because they generally do the same, and you have a group looking out for things you may not come across yourself. It is a give and take that I feel works very well. It is a long term process. If you are a "lone wolf", sure you may get the toys you want, but it is a short sighted way to be, or at the very least a lonely one. Life is too short to be a douche over a toy. Part of the fun is the community. Karmic boomerang in effect.
"GRRR BIB" .... "Blah The bastard did it again" and "I only bid at night" Classic, LMAO!
Very interesting. I'm not really into the vintage toy scene, so thankfully I can avoid this kind of headaches that might arise from the selling/buying of them. :P
The stuff I like is all new stuff that's readily available, so thankfully I can just hit up ebay and buy stuff at around MSRP...
G1 Transformers are as 'vintage' as I go, but thankfully Takara reissues some of the old stuff so that alleviates some headaches as well :P
Ebay no longer allows bidders to see who the other bidders are. Ebay only displays the full username to the sellers. They also changed their feedback policy. Sellers can no longer leave retaliatory negative feedback. It's a touchy subject, but from a buyers standpoint, I was always reserved when leaving a neg. for a seller. Even though they deserved it wholeheartedly, they would often retaliate with a negative.
Was this episode filmed at 4 am again? Veef looks like he dropped a Klonopin before the shoot!
I'll have at least two reviews coming up that are a direct result of someone aggressively trying to acquire a toy from someone else's collection. ;)
As for Ebay, yeah, you can't tell the username's, but if you pay close enough attention and know what people collect, you can often still tell who bid on what by their feedback rating.
"You can't sell it until you get it from him, but you gotta sell it to pay him to get it to sell it".
---Jerilock, talking about me trying to raise the money I need to pay for the toys I already bought....
I always thought the reason that the United Vintage Brethren don't like to have live auctions posted was because its some kind of uber-geek-identity-code thing to own these toys and not have other people own them also, or even know they exist, like an exclusive club for gomers all battling to be the ultimate gomer.
I guess I better lay off posting all these live My Pretty Pony auctions. You don't want to offend those guys. They'll kill you for the right Pony.
Someone needs to redo this video with thought bubbles over Andrews head haha
many interesting points made in this video, I never realized people may confuse the reviews with items for sale, that was kind of amusing to me
Good points made in the show. It disappoints me people are too stupid to actually read the site and just email asking to buy stuff when a 5 minute perusal could show you its not.
I do leave feedback, but usually when I have 3-4 transactions to leave at once.
But the thing about scene and community is an interesting one.
I have discussed this with many net folks in the nerd arena and most seem to agree with me.
In general community really seems to mean "Group of people enabling and encouraging behavior that would in most cases be looked down upon by people in general".
I see a lot of boards, message groups, forums, IRC channels, and so on that use that community term, and its almost exclusively used in that manner.
Casual interested people into the same subjects of these communities tend to think said term means closer to "nerd mafia" as it becomes an ALL OR NOTHING set of viewpoints and behaviors in that group, with no moderating middle ground or dissent allowed. You either love and praise everything within that "community" or you are an evil naughty badperson who is yelling BADWRONGFUN at them. (1) (Of course given how so many people are intentionally rude and hateful to others I can understand why people get this way, but it pretty much RUINS all intelligent conversation on anything. This sort of nonsense really got its start with AM radio hosts like Limbaugh who took Debate Society styled talk and amped it to 11. AGREE OR ELSE YOU ARE SCUM. This is totally lame.)
(1) (A big example of community as I am speaking of it in action is those furry folks. They became so insular and approving of everything their entire hobby is basically TAINTED to the point nobody wants anything at all to do with them. I think we can really see the same thing happening with anime fandom.)
I sort of saw it here with the topic article about the reviews and what seems to get covered and all the mention of price. Those of us on the cheapskate side of things are in general not saying UR DUMB LOSER BUYIN 100+ DOLLAR TOYS VIRGIN BASEMENT NEKBEERD LOL, but due to the way Internet discussion and "community" nonsense has gotten it may have been looked at as such instead of (at least from any comments I have made) been more of "Uhh.. isn't that a bit much for a pretty toy that just sits there and collects dust? It seems too much to pay for what it is". But given the way net discussions I think many folks in toy collecting don't think this is what the cheapskate folks are actually saying when we are.
Mainly because the REAL anti toy people aren't gonna waste their time anyhow, and the obnoxious trolls trying to be a jerkface are going to be easily spotted and dealt with accordingly.
Or I could just be out of my mind and just don't get talking online to anyone about anything period. Who knows?
If you think furries are ostracized for their insular and approving nature, well, let me explain something to you...
I thought this video podcast (is that what we call these?) encapsulated the buying-selling etiquette issues pretty nicely. Niche collecting gives rise to similar benefits and problems no matter the subject material.
It's funny that people see the protective community concept as an exclusive, hive-mind affair. It is really well-intentioned in most forms that I have seen. The problem, to me, is that people think that they should have the right to go anywhere and say anything on the Internet without repercussion. Social norms form the construct within which a community operates. Would you go to a Rotary Club meeting and demand that they have karaoke night? No? Then why would you question the amount of money spent on toys on a BBS or website for expensive vintage toys. It's like asking for an unproductive discussion.
Are you like, f**king PRESCIENT, Josh? Because I was just lamenting my lack of Wanzer toys as you mentioned that Front Mission toy had. God damn.
(I just edited out the bad words. -Dave)
Hey Dave, Josh & Crew,
Although I would never ask how much your items specifically cost, it would be great to have a window of how much an item is worth for example "A figure in beat condition can still go for $150 but expect to pay around $600.00 for a premium condition" this is what I like to do in my reviews so people can gauge cost of they would want to purchase one.
Honestly I could care less if something is "worth money". I buy things because I like it, sometimes its $1.00 other times its $200, the money is only a way to get the item that I really want. Sure I have items that went up in value or I could sell to cash out but I collect because I like the item.
So many people ruin hobbies with many of the issues you brought up in the program. People get so caught up with if its "worth money" they miss out on the fun of the hobby.
Which comes to this. I absolutely hate the toy C-1 to c-10 grading system. It has so many nuances and flaws and its way to over bearing. I refuse to use it as it is more of a status system of what C-grade you own and people tend to get caught up on grading status then the actual fun and beauty of the hobby. Record collectors use a fair-good-very good-near mint-mint (and "mint" is very rarely used as nothing can ever be untouched) that is more based on the condition of the record than a status focused C- grading system. AFA (Action Figure AUTHORITY- Give me a BREAK you pompous arses at AFA!) doesn't help things along either. Grading should be about the condition of an item and not a status symbol.
I know Andrew uses the C-Grade system correctly as he really wants to find untouched specimens because he really enjoys the hobby but in general is has become a more about status than an actually grading system.
Anyway that's what the next show should be about!
When I was younger I did know a few people who were into Furry culture and there was something incestual and sick about their culture. They were some very weird-ass people I wouldn't be surprised if some of them where in prison now.
CollectionDX Staff Writer-West Coast Bureau
The AFA, yes! Now there is a fine group of real go getters who aim high and really want to make a difference, which is why they are THE AFA, THE AUTHORITY. Of course nobody knows who appointed this keen group of authoritative individuals, but probably somebody really important who doesn't cross dress or wear clown makeup.
Ok, but enough praise for these former Boy Scouts. What I really wanted to point out is how many other interests and groups these poor slobs are THE authority of, all of which are listed in the United States as being the AFA (and I'm serious here).
The Air Force Association
American Finance Association
Association of Flight Attendants
Association of Fraternity Advisors
American Forensic Association
American Fertility Association
Alzheimer's Foundation of America
American Federation of Astrologers
American Ferret Association
and the list goes on for about, oh, another three or four hundred listings..
Who would have guessed these guys were the authorities on so many different levels?
Oh wow. Grading companies.
Turning your already overpriced collectibles even more overpriced via plastic boxes and a number up top.
So MISB/C becomes MISB/C... SIGP (Sealed in Graded Plastic).
And somehow.. people fall for this. Which sorts of leads to those of us who are already cheapskates asking WHY?
I think they might have even hit videogames by this point. Folks pay big money for sealed games they will never play (making me ask WHY) with certain case types.
So let's shove it in ANOTHER sealed bit so its even less usable.
There really ought to be a show centering on the MISB FOREVER crowd. Someone needs to make me understand this.
I am just too practical of a nerd I think. :(
I CALL DIBS ON BIDDING AGAINST DAVE!
Wait, ..did I do it right?
Good discussion guys, I agree on the email to freinds, and stepping aside if somebody really wants/needs a certain item, and I've been very grateful when someone did the same for me. However, it shouldn't be 100% counted on, or expected, but just appreciated when it works out.
And XIOMBARG, I've got my eye on you. The Brethren do not appreciate their reasonings and doin's outed to the public. The nerd mafia will meet next Saturday to discuss this "thing".
First the Pretty Pony guys and now the Vintage Brethren of die-cast.. I'm a dead nerd.
" I absolutely hate the toy C-1 to c-10 grading system. It has so many nuances and flaws and its way to over bearing. I refuse to use it as it is more of a status system of what C-grade you own and people tend to get caught up on grading status then the actual fun and beauty of the hobby. Record collectors use a fair-good-very good-near mint-mint (and "mint" is very rarely used as nothing can ever be untouched) that is more based on the condition of the record than a status focused C- grading system. AFA (Action Figure AUTHORITY- Give me a BREAK you pompous arses at AFA!) doesn't help things along either. Grading should be about the condition of an item and not a status symbol."
Maybe, but I think people can use a "C" rating and not be pompous . I think it is rather odd to generalize people in the hobby based on how they prefer to grade their toys? ;-). People who use the grading may have nothing to do with AFA. I buy plastic containers from CGA but have never bothered to have something graded. it is just what makes you happy.
Keep in mind, cost of a vintage toy will depend heavily on its rating, so when you buy something, you want to be sure it is accurately graded. It is not a preoccupation with value, as not wanting to get ripped off and pay a mint price for a beat toy. Lol
I use it, and although subjective, it can be sometimes more accurate than a word like "excellent" or "good" if they are precise in their use of it.
Photos are the only true measure of condition anyway for me, so I generally don't bother listening to what the seller says the condition is. I just ask for additional photos as everyone's perspective is different. But does it really matter what system you use??
Anyway what the hell do I know. Heh
First off every hobby has to have some sort of grading system, it be records, coins, militaria, toys etc. Definitely toys, the very nature of being a collectible needs to have a specific grading system so collectors everywhere can have a general idea to gauge the condition of the item.
But ten points of grading in the C-system?! Is there that much of a difference between a C-6 or C-7? (not to mention when people start doing "C-7 minus" or "C-6 Plus") It there that much of a value difference between the two? Would a collector not buy a C-6 but buy a C-7? There isn't that much difference between the two grades. But there is a HUGE difference between a C-5, C-8 and C-10. I like broader and more realistic grading systems like used in coins and records. Its easier to memorize those systems. The C-System is just nit picky mess that has so many rules and nuances that it's too difficult to memorize. Why stop at C-10? Why don't we go to C-20 or maybe C-100? Wouldn't a C-11 toy be better than your C-10 toys? lol Perhaps I should start collecting only C-6 toys!
I can understand that you collect C-10 toys because it's so much easier to look for one grade! Lol. BTW Have you ever bought a C-10 and got a C-9?
I'm aware AFA is completely different subject with C-Grading but once I get going on grading they seem to be the total biggest hoax and personification of all of this!
I know people can use the C-System correctly but I have a problem personally with the system in general. Again a grading system is important and absolutely needed but the C-system is just to much.
And Kudos to Dave for busting open that &*$#$% Box! You should have done it on the program!
Well to use one of your examples, coin grading systems are not that broad always. They also get numbering systems. When a coin is in an uncirculated state, there are systems that grade far more specifically than 1-10.
For example, the Sheldon scale is a 70 point system used most commonly today. Even the standard adjectival system used before the Sheldon had 11 levels.
Like I said, everyone does what works for them. I am not going to spend a ton of energy judging people for it. ;-)
Coins have their own particular dynamics as well which will move the topic into another subject outside the scope of this site.
"Like I said, everyone does what works for them. I am not going to spend a ton of energy judging people for it. ;-)"
I was just throwing it out as a subject for the program. Trust me I don't spend all my waking hours getting angry at people who should have graded a C-7 a C-6. Lol! But the dynamic dialog between us and the subject matter would be great subject for the show.
Thanks as always!!
"I was just throwing it out as a subject for the program. Trust me I don't spend all my waking hours getting angry at people who should have graded a C-7 a C-6. Lol! But the dynamic dialog between us and the subject matter would be great subject for the show."
Haha..I agree. Maybe I should get my butt to Josh B's and do a C10 "freak" guest spot sometime. Maybe you can be there live via skype or something.
Dave can break open a CGA case and crush a mint box, and I can burn a jumbo in front of him. Fun all around.
Lets not burn a toy. That makes as much sense as those people who buy game consoles day one, go out in front of the waiting line and smash it.
Its just a waste of money, not to mention a negative impact on the environment.
Now ripping something out of its packaging to ENJOY?
If you are gonna drop multiple C notes on a toy, the least you can do is remove it from its prison and display it and enjoy it. Otherwise, you have.. something on a card or in a box. YOU PAID 100s of DOLLARS FOR A BOX. This does not make sense. Like Chewbacca who is a Wookie living on Endor with the Ewoks.
Im happy to say I took 2 OOP RPG/Boargames still in shrinkwrap and opened those suckers up to enjoy the contents within. (That would be Ghostbuster GBI RPG, and Citytech 2nd edition.)
A toy forever sealed is a sad toy that has an unfulfilled destiny of providing joy.
For myself, in most cases, I totally agree, though I know others feel differently;
"A toy forever sealed is a sad toy that has an unfulfilled destiny of providing joy."
A couple years back, I bought a Getter Dragon SOC. The guy selling it said something like 'It's never been opened, but the box is a little scuffed up, and has a small scratch on the front.' When I told him I didn't care because I planned on opening and playing with it, he had a look of horror and disdain, like he couldn't believe he was about to sell it to someone who he deemed a less-hardcore collector.
(On the other hand, I have a whole collection of carded Boba Fetts, most MOMC, that never even see daylight, but that's more of an OCD thing. I'm not ashamed. Or proud.)
My grading system is called "lots of pictures".
"Lets not burn a toy. That makes as much sense as those people who buy game consoles day one, go out in front of the waiting line and smash it.
Its just a waste of money, not to mention a negative impact on the environment."
You know that I was joking right?
"If you are gonna drop multiple C notes on a toy, the least you can do is remove it from its prison and display it and enjoy it. Otherwise, you have.. something on a card or in a box. YOU PAID 100s of DOLLARS FOR A BOX. This does not make sense. Like Chewbacca who is a Wookie living on Endor with the Ewoks."
I only disagree in the context of vintage pieces. If something has survived 20, 30 years without being opened, I think it is better to leave it that way. Go find a mint, opened specimen if you need to play with it. This will probably be cheaper for you and it will not reduce the numbers of unopened examples in circulation. Sometimes I buy doubles of the same toy for this reason.
I agree, vintage pieces should be left alone, unless you can remove and return it to the packaging without harming the packages. I would NEVER remove the toys from a vintage blister card. The suggestion that having a carded figure does not make sense, to me, does not make sense. You seem a little hung up on the idea that everything must DO something in order to be worthwhile and I don't agree with that. As long as it looks good, it's got value. I mean, not a single one of my posters does anything and I love them! I see no difference between that and vintage toy art. I would be just as happy to hang a vintage carded figure on my wall as a poster or painting and feel not one urge to open it.
On the other hand, just today I applied the stickers to two vintage jumbos. I had to do it. They NEED the stickers on them to look their best. As a collector, I don't consider a toy with stickers applied to be less appealing than one without them applied.
Vintage stickers are tricky tho... they often don't hold up very well. Much better to make a repro set and leave the virgin original sheet alone ;)
Glad to see these topics come up!
A few months back a CDXer was selling a Machinder that I've been trying to find for years since it's review here on the site. As an early bidding war began to get too rich for my blood, I messaged him letting him know he could always send a second offer to me if the other guy backed out of the deal later on- so he wouldn't be screwed and knew he had a reliable buyer.
When he got back to me to let me know just how passionate the other bidder was, I just had to stop bidding; the other guy just wanted it more, and that was cool with me. And then another one went up days later and sold for a little less. And then the CDXer clued me in to yet another one for sale, and asked for help finding another item. So in the end, everyone wins: the two guys who bid just a bit more than me on the machinders get them and don't have to pay "inflation"; the CDXer now has three more guys searching for another piece for him; and I have more details and some new leads on finding that machinder for far cheaper.
Again, i've been searching for one for years, without success, but I think rather than calling my CC company for a limit increase and scoring either one of those machinders, that "waiting my turn" so to speak benefited everyone.
I can't imagine why this is suddenly the most viewed article on the site today, but since it is, it reminds me that my friend Tom made a video articulating, much more eloquently than I ever could, my feelings on posting live auctions. I feel like this should be stickied on every collecting site on the planet.
Interesting. I guess I never really gave much thought to posting live auction links on message boards( not that I do it). I guess I am so lucky to be collecting recent toys, where if this sort of thing did happen to me, I would only be losing out on a couple of bucks or an auction for an item that will show up again.